2010 regulation row on £40m budget cap

Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
axle
axle
3
Joined: 22 Jun 2004, 14:45
Location: Norfolk, UK

Re: Ferrari to pull out of F1 next year

Post

DaveKillens wrote:The fact that the deadline for entrants was moved up six months places pressure on everyone to find a quick compromise. It appears that one may be possible, and hopefully everyone will sign on the dotted line. The details of Haug's proposal are sketchy, and I would love to learn more details.
But if there will be a 100 million budget cap in 2010 and even lower in 2011, this opens up interesting possiblities. What would keep any one the teams with big pockets from pouring a lot of money and resources in 2009 towards the 2010 car? So, if this goes through, I expect teams such as McLaren and Ferrari to have killer cars for the 2010 season. Spend the money today, because it doesn't have to be part of the 2010 budget.
Hopeful entrants would have to operate on their lower budgets, but if they do receive quality assistance from the established teams then the performance gap may be closer. But it does give teams like Mclaren an opportunity to establish very close ties to .. umm, let's say... pertnar teams such as Force India. In fact, the ties may be so close those supported teams may find themselves a junior partners to established teams.
So where does that leave Williams? They do not qualify as a new team, and thus will not receive assistance from other teams. Williams did commit themselves, but I ponder exactly what they commited themselves for? Are they forced to live within a budget cap in 2010? Right now there appear to be three distinct classes. The teams already participating in Formula One, but waiting for this compromise, the new teams coming in 2010, and Williams. Odd man out, fell through the cracks, call it what you will, I do have concerns about their future.
Williams aren't cast aside as you infer. They are in the same boat as every other team that exists in F1. They will abide by the rules - 1 set of rules for all...

The reason they submitted first was 2 fold.
1) They had a legal obligation. (hands tied - they have to race in F1 next year end of story even if there was a breakaway series).
2) They had to submit early as they could have been left red faced if they had been last to submit and 13 teams had signed up ahead of them. They had to guarantee they would be in F1.
They will and have supported the FOTA proposals, but they have to protect their business too. They, unlike the manufacturers, only exist to race.

Don't forget the other independents DIDN'T vote when FOTA voted on asking Williams to leave the discussions.

At the end of the day, new teams will be helped. Existing teams will continue to battle on.
- Axle

gridwalker
gridwalker
7
Joined: 27 Mar 2009, 12:22
Location: Sheffield, UK

Re: Ferrari to pull out of F1 next year

Post

WhiteBlue wrote:
gcdugas wrote:No concession from Max as I predicted . Ferrari are in the French civil courts. They are serious. 14 days to go. The teams will not sign and Bernie will be without a series. ....

Max is a N@z! socialist tyrant pig who doesn't believe in gravity...

And please note that the budget cap is by far a secondary issue. .
I just went back to demonstrate the quality of our valued member gcdugas predictions. The statement in bold was emphasised by me.
I'm starting to regret not having invoked Godwin's Law at the time ...
"Change is inevitable, except from a vending machine ..."

ben_watkins
ben_watkins
0
Joined: 21 Jun 2007, 23:49
Location: UK

New teams lodge F1 entry for 2010

Post

So far, according to Autosport the following teams have lodged an entry for F1 2010 season

Campos Meta1
Team US F1

and now Prodrive [Aston Martin]

The only other team to have joined up for next season so far is Williams, who stated they are legally obliged to join.


Who else will join them?
BWP
Tripos Media Partners
#TriposMediaPartners

axle
axle
3
Joined: 22 Jun 2004, 14:45
Location: Norfolk, UK

Re: New teams lodge F1 entry for 2010

Post

ben_watkins wrote:So far, according to Autosport the following teams have lodged an entry for F1 2010 season

Campos Meta1
Team US F1

and now Prodrive [Aston Martin]

The only other team to have joined up for next season so far is Williams, who stated they are legally obliged to join.


Who else will join them?
We'll know by the end of the day....
- Axle

DaveKillens
DaveKillens
34
Joined: 20 Jan 2005, 04:02

Re: Ferrari to pull out of F1 next year

Post

WhiteBlue wrote:
gcdugas wrote:No concession from Max as I predicted . Ferrari are in the French civil courts. They are serious. 14 days to go. The teams will not sign and Bernie will be without a series. ....

Max is a N@z! socialist tyrant pig who doesn't believe in gravity...

And please note that the budget cap is by far a secondary issue. .
I just went back to demonstrate the quality of our valued member gcdugas predictions. The statement in bold was emphasised by me.
So what? Are we here to discuss technical aspects of Formula One or to sit back and pick each other apart? I have zero respect for people who think that their contribution to a discussion is to attack and find wrong other's posts.
Racing should be decided on the track, not the court room.

User avatar
WhiteBlue
92
Joined: 14 Apr 2008, 20:58
Location: WhiteBlue Country

Re: Ferrari to pull out of F1 next year

Post

I must say I like Dave Richards comment:
We are very appreciative of the support we have been given in putting together our entry, not least by both the FIA and FOM. With the help of Dar Capital, in raising the finance, coupled with our understanding of the latest proposals to assist new teams, we now feel the conditions are right to formally request the FIA for an entry. The level of next year's cost cap has risen substantially since we originally considered entering. However everyone appears committed to major reductions in future years and when one takes into account the transition proposals for new teams we are confident that we now have the opportunity to be both commercially viable and competitive. As we have said all along, we don't want to be in Formula 1 just to make up the numbers.
It puts some of the credit for solving this issue where it is due. A Prodrive and successive Aston Martin entry would not have been possible without the FIA budget cap initiative. I would also give credit to Merc (and probably BMW supporting the move) who have offered technical support in 2010 to get the new teams competitive from the start.
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best .............................. organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)

User avatar
Chaparral
0
Joined: 01 May 2008, 13:10
Location: New England District NSW Australia

Re: Ferrari to pull out of F1 next year

Post

gridwalker wrote:
WhiteBlue wrote:
gcdugas wrote:No concession from Max as I predicted . Ferrari are in the French civil courts. They are serious. 14 days to go. The teams will not sign and Bernie will be without a series. ....

Max is a N@z! socialist tyrant pig who doesn't believe in gravity...

And please note that the budget cap is by far a secondary issue. .
I just went back to demonstrate the quality of our valued member gcdugas predictions. The statement in bold was emphasised by me.
I'm starting to regret not having invoked Godwin's Law at the time ...
Touche' Gridwalker couldnt have put it better myself :)
The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free and good men die like dogs - there's also the negative side' - Hunter S Thompson

User avatar
Sawtooth-spike
0
Joined: 28 Jan 2005, 15:33
Location: Cambridge

Re: Ferrari to pull out of F1 next year

Post

Do anybody else think we should start a 2010 Entries Topic? This one was ment to be more about people leaving F1 and now we are talking alot more about who is in it for next year.

Just a thought

PS: lola have confirmed there entry. Do you think they might use a wind tunnel this time?

EDIT: Always the way, just as you post something like this somebody goes and does it!
Last edited by Sawtooth-spike on 29 May 2009, 13:30, edited 1 time in total.
I believe in the chain of command, Its the chain I use to beat you till you do what i want!!!

User avatar
WhiteBlue
92
Joined: 14 Apr 2008, 20:58
Location: WhiteBlue Country

Re: Ferrari to pull out of F1 next year

Post

DaveKillens wrote:
WhiteBlue wrote:
gcdugas wrote:No concession from Max as I predicted . Ferrari are in the French civil courts. They are serious. 14 days to go. The teams will not sign and Bernie will be without a series. ....

Max is a N@z! socialist tyrant pig who doesn't believe in gravity...

And please note that the budget cap is by far a secondary issue. .
I just went back to demonstrate the quality of our valued member gcdugas predictions. The statement in bold was emphasised by me.
So what? Are we here to discuss technical aspects of Formula One or to sit back and pick each other apart? ....
We are certainly not, but I refrained from arguing much of the stuff he has been putting out because I knew it would never happen that way. Now I just allowed myself to waste a bit of space. I promise it will help me to tolerate more of the same which will certainly come from the valued member in the future.
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best .............................. organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)

User avatar
Chaparral
0
Joined: 01 May 2008, 13:10
Location: New England District NSW Australia

Re: Ferrari to pull out of F1 next year

Post

but I refrained from arguing much of the stuff


You always argue not debate but denigrate WB how unusual - you as I and many people know have absolutely no idea of whats going on in F1 - you speculate (usually incorrectly) and do your damdest to talk down respondents to various threads with a variety of tactics usually cut and paste from various articles made to look like your own thoughts - you figure most of the good folk here have no input and no knowledge nor insight nor contacts that may actually be a little closer to the truth than yourself - you are very very wrong - have some respect for opinions and knowledge of others - thank you good night and good luck as the movie title goes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNq8LoYj ... PL&index=5
The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free and good men die like dogs - there's also the negative side' - Hunter S Thompson

User avatar
WhiteBlue
92
Joined: 14 Apr 2008, 20:58
Location: WhiteBlue Country

Re: 2010 regulation row on £40m budget cap

Post

As usual Chaparral, you don't grasp the sense of the quotation function. It is to indicate that the quote is by someone else. Contrary to your accusations I do not claim quoted text as my own thoughts and everybody with some honesty on this board knows that.

Please notice the naming of sources that typically accompany the quotes I use. Instead of making unfounded accusations you could use your time better to give us your nuggets of wisdom without personal attacks on me.

I do not claim to know any famous people in F1 (like being intimate with one of Bernies daughters :D ). I just read what is availabe from public sources and form an opinion regarding issues that catch my interest.

If you care to go back to the start of the two or three main threads of this debate you will find that I have allways supported the budget cap initiative in order to get teams like Prodrive on the grid and prevent further desasters like the loss of the Super Aguri team from F1 last year. I do not agree with people who think that FOTA generate the product and should run F1. Consequently I have taken the position that FOTA should compromise with the FIA and have dismissed the Ferrari threat to leave as posturing. It was simply a bargaining position to keep higher financial capabilities for longer as we can see now.
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best .............................. organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)

User avatar
Chaparral
0
Joined: 01 May 2008, 13:10
Location: New England District NSW Australia

Re: 2010 regulation row on £40m budget cap

Post

WhiteBlue wrote:As usual Chaparral, you don't grasp the sense of the quotation function. It is to indicate that the quote is by someone else. Contrary to your accusations I do not claim quoted text as my own thoughts and everybody with some honesty on this board knows that.

Please notice the naming of sources that typically accompany the quotes I use. Instead of making unfounded accusations you could use your time better to give us your nuggets of wisdom without personal attacks on me.
I love up close and personal WB and as you have been seen to do numerous times before at another forum you were banned from (then Ocelot being banned from Atlas and it was you I know that) you continue to manipulate the dialogue via a mixture of 'quotes' and cut and paste - yes I guess its personal in a way as I actually like to hear from the various forum contributors be they non informed and just asking questions to the (informed) who actually pass on their knowledge - I kind of like that its refreshing no b/s and egos involved. I actually stopped posting here over the last few weeks because of you and your b/s and I guess who cares but I just get fed up with your 'matter of fact' and 'this is verbatim' dialogue on various threads - forgive me am I too sensitive I dont think so all forums have their fools I guess. Can you just give some creedence to other posters i.e some respect and that would be a big step forward. In my case if I have something to add from my contacts in the motor sport business I probably wont post them ok?? Yes I expect a PM from admin regarding my post but hey thats life I can live with that.

Steve
The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free and good men die like dogs - there's also the negative side' - Hunter S Thompson

gridwalker
gridwalker
7
Joined: 27 Mar 2009, 12:22
Location: Sheffield, UK

Re: 2010 regulation row on £40m budget cap

Post

BBC F1 wrote:Ferrari and the rest of the teams in the Formula One Teams' Association (Fota) have submitted conditional entries for the 2010 championship.

Williams announced on Monday that they intend to enter next season's campaign.

McLaren, BMW Sauber, Toyota, Renault, Red Bull Racing, Toro Rosso and Brawn GP have now all followed suit.

The move would appear to bring an end to the recent row with the sport's governing body, the FIA, over the voluntary budget cap.

A statement on behalf of the Fota said: "Fota confirms all its members' long-term commitment to be involved in the FIA Formula One World Championship and has unanimously agreed further and significant actions to substantially reduce the costs of competing in the championship in the next three years."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsp ... 072295.stm

There we are. Can this thread now die a dignified death?

I've cross-posted that passage on the thread about the new teams set to be joining F1 next season, so let's just leave this thread to cool off now.
"Change is inevitable, except from a vending machine ..."

bill shoe
bill shoe
151
Joined: 19 Nov 2008, 08:18
Location: Dallas, Texas, USA

Re: 2010 regulation row on £40m budget cap

Post

This issue hasn't died. We actually haven't seen the climax yet. The climax will be the FIA accepting or not accepting the "conditional" entries for 2010. The only actual progress that has been made is that FOTA has decided to agree with itself about the future of F1.

I'm torn-- I support the FIA philosophy about how to return costs to non-absurd levels, but I also support the FOTA philosophy to stop doing all the work in the sport only to get bossed around by the FIA and FOA. The FOTA action is not in any way a compromise with the FIA as has been portrayed in the media. Rather it is a ballsy put-up-or-shut-up set of demands for the FIA to agree with FOTA. Read the John Howit interview on Autosport.com to understand how the current media headlines differ from the reality of FOTA's stance.

Whatever happens this will be interesting. This issue is the opposite of dead.

gridwalker
gridwalker
7
Joined: 27 Mar 2009, 12:22
Location: Sheffield, UK

Re: 2010 regulation row on £40m budget cap

Post

bill shoe wrote:This issue hasn't died. We actually haven't seen the climax yet. The climax will be the FIA accepting or not accepting the "conditional" entries for 2010. The only actual progress that has been made is that FOTA has decided to agree with itself about the future of F1.

I'm torn-- I support the FIA philosophy about how to return costs to non-absurd levels, but I also support the FOTA philosophy to stop doing all the work in the sport only to get bossed around by the FIA and FOA. The FOTA action is not in any way a compromise with the FIA as has been portrayed in the media. Rather it is a ballsy put-up-or-shut-up set of demands for the FIA to agree with FOTA. Read the John Howit interview on Autosport.com to understand how the current media headlines differ from the reality of FOTA's stance.

Whatever happens this will be interesting. This issue is the opposite of dead.
I was just trying to reinvigorate the debate by shunting the topic forwards onto the matters in hand (as being discussed in the new entry thread) : if you check some of the most recent posts, this particular thread was starting to get personal.

Don't worry, there's still plenty of discussion to be had, but preferably not when tempers are rising.
"Change is inevitable, except from a vending machine ..."