Strange going-ons at Red Bull

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Is Webber being sabotaged by RB management?

Poll ended at 07 Jun 2010, 15:03

Yes
23
33%
Maybe
20
29%
Unlikely
17
24%
no way
10
14%
 
Total votes: 70

vall
vall
0
Joined: 04 Nov 2008, 21:31

Re: Strange going-ons at Red Bull

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Mysticf1 wrote:3 is definitely plausible... just take a quick look at the Redbull online store, the vast number of Vettel specific items compared to Webber is striking.

Another point worth noting...i believe Redbull are worried about losing Vettel to another team at the end of his current contract...not long after Turkey they made announcements they would like to lock him into a much longer term contract..which doesnt seem to have materialised...if indeed the golden boy is schu jnr they want him there as long as possible.

+1
and Merc will be more than happy to have him

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forty-two
0
Joined: 01 Mar 2010, 21:07

Re: Strange going-ons at Red Bull

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vall wrote:
forty-two wrote:One thing not explored very much in this debate is the possible motivation for the alleged favouritism within RBR. What factors should be considered here? Please add to this list any other factors which should be taken into account or discounted:

1. It has been speculated that the order to treat Vettel favourably might have come from the team ownership, who being Austrian might have a leaning toward a German driver.
2. I wonder if the management might simply "like" Vettel more than they like Webber?
3. Perhaps Vettel has a higher marketability if indeed he were to secure a WDC, which could reap the team better sponsor revenue?
4. Might RBR be unhappy or uncomfortable dealing with Webber's manager?
5. Might RBR be looking to encourage MW to leave in order to free up his seat for someone else? If so, who?
6. Perhaps someone within the team management has been having an affair with one or other OR BOTH of the drivers? *
7. It could be that a sponsor of the team is keen to see SV do well in order to market their products/services better.

I look forward to your thoughts on the above!

* Disclaimer - I have absolutely no reason to think this and am not accusing anyone of anything, I am merely stating that such a situation IF IT WERE TRUE could be a factor.
I think 1,2,4,5,6 can be safely dis-counted. I think RBR should get rid of Marko,the sooner the better
I know we're talking about our opinions here and not hard facts, but why do you say 1,2,4,5 & 6 can be safely discounted? I don't neccesarily disagree with you, but I don't understand why these are, in your opinion clearly unlikely candidates for motivating factors?
The answer to the ultimate question, of life, the Universe and ... Everything?

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forty-two
0
Joined: 01 Mar 2010, 21:07

Re: Strange going-ons at Red Bull

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vall wrote:
Mysticf1 wrote:3 is definitely plausible... just take a quick look at the Redbull online store, the vast number of Vettel specific items compared to Webber is striking.

Another point worth noting...i believe Redbull are worried about losing Vettel to another team at the end of his current contract...not long after Turkey they made announcements they would like to lock him into a much longer term contract..which doesnt seem to have materialised...if indeed the golden boy is schu jnr they want him there as long as possible.

+1
and Merc will be more than happy to have him
Two very good new points made there guys! Yep, I reckon both of those are entirely plausible.
The answer to the ultimate question, of life, the Universe and ... Everything?

BreezyRacer
BreezyRacer
2
Joined: 04 Nov 2006, 00:31

Re: Strange going-ons at Red Bull

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vall wrote:
Mysticf1 wrote:3 is definitely plausible... just take a quick look at the Redbull online store, the vast number of Vettel specific items compared to Webber is striking.

Another point worth noting...i believe Redbull are worried about losing Vettel to another team at the end of his current contract...not long after Turkey they made announcements they would like to lock him into a much longer term contract..which doesnt seem to have materialised...if indeed the golden boy is schu jnr they want him there as long as possible.

+1
and Merc will be more than happy to have him
It would be quite funny to see Vettel have the same exact problems with Nico!

BreezyRacer
BreezyRacer
2
Joined: 04 Nov 2006, 00:31

Re: Strange going-ons at Red Bull

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Well it's official .. WhiteBlue is really Helmut Marko ..
http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2010/07/m ... -red-bull/

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WhiteBlue
92
Joined: 14 Apr 2008, 20:58
Location: WhiteBlue Country

Re: Strange going-ons at Red Bull

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BreezyRacer wrote:Well it's official .. WhiteBlue is really Helmut Marko ..
http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2010/07/m ... -red-bull/

:lol: :lol: :lol:

The funny side is that it took the british media one week to take a look over the garden fence and examine the points of the other side of this team mate war.

I always found it strange that Webber went on with his crusade after the wing thing was explained to him by Horner. It is entirely plausible that he did this on advise by Briatore as he already claimed to have spoken with Briatore before the race. Webber hinted that he regrets signing a contract after the race. That would also be in line with an attempt at overthrowing the last contract conditions and raising his salary from 5 to 8 millions. It would be a typical Briatore money grabbing scheme to use Horner's screw ups to put pressure on the team and have them appeasing him by money. Cleverly done but typically Briatore sleazy if it is true. Webber should split from Briatore. The association with that crook will damage him if he stays.
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best .............................. organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)

myurr
myurr
9
Joined: 20 Mar 2008, 21:58

Re: Strange going-ons at Red Bull

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WhiteBlue wrote:
BreezyRacer wrote:Well it's official .. WhiteBlue is really Helmut Marko ..
http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2010/07/m ... -red-bull/

:lol: :lol: :lol:

The funny side is that it took the british media one week to take a look over the garden fence and examine the points of the other side of this team mate war.

I always found it strange that Webber went on with his crusade after the wing thing was explained to him by Horner. It is entirely plausible that he did this on advise by Briatore as he already claimed to have spoken with Briatore before the race. Webber hinted that he regrets signing a contract after the race. That would also be in line with an attempt at overthrowing the last contract conditions and raising his salary from 5 to 8 millions. It would be a typical Briatore money grabbing scheme to use Horner's screw ups to put pressure on the team and have them appeasing him by money. Cleverly done but typically Briatore sleazy if it is true. Webber should split from Briatore. The association with that crook will damage him if he stays.
More outpouring of hate towards Webber with desperate attempts to link this all back to Briatore, without a single word of condemnation for Dr Marko who has once again publicly criticised one of his teams drivers at a time when they're supposed to be reconciling their differences.

Or is Dr Marko's interview part of Webber's pysops plan and in fact was written by Briatore?

Sooner or later you're going to have to face up to the fact that Red Bull Racings parent company have chosen to back Vettel and are manipulating the team to give him preferential treatment. They are also engaging in a media campaign to undermine the other side of the garage and were not only the first to speak out in public criticism of one of their own but are still engaging in this media war after the 'clear the air' talks. Vettel is happy to accept advantage and has done nothing to suggest otherwise whilst publicly criticising his team mate for not accepting disadvantage.

That Webber has used the only weapon he has, public opinion, to try and ensure a fair shot at the title does not make him mad, manipulative or engaged in a psyops campaign against his team mate - it makes him a racing driver who is having to fight tooth and nail for a level playing field. Vettel's reputation is taking such a hit due to both his and his teams actions, albeit mostly the latter, and is not because of an orchestrated campaign by Webber in collaboration with Briatore.

marcush.
marcush.
159
Joined: 09 Mar 2004, 16:55

Re: Strange going-ons at Red Bull

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if that was true ,no doubt they will not be Champs this year...a rediculous idea to play politics internally the whole outfit will explode sooner or later when too many people play two faced in a world of true racers ..Would Newey accept and support this...no ways .... I´d think even Vettel would hate to win knowing Webber gets strapped back without being informed.For Webbo it might help him release hidden powers (remember Berger -Alboreto at Ferrari)but anyways this will not be enough to beat Ham ...They should have concentrated on bagging the title first and then make Vettel champ.

mick1980
mick1980
0
Joined: 18 Jul 2010, 03:42
Location: Sunshine Coast, Australia

Re: Strange going-ons at Red Bull

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Of course Red Bull ultimately want Vettel to win the WC, he has been the product of heavy investment from RB and now it is time to cough up with the results. They weren't expecting Mark to have the season he is having, in my opinion he was retained to solidify the constructors championship and to try to maintain a buffer for Vettel. I just sit back and laugh as the powers that be at RB are fumbling to explain reasons behind their decisions in giving Vettel 'the upper hand', and yet he has only 2 wins to Mark's 3. Just my 2 cents....

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WhiteBlue
92
Joined: 14 Apr 2008, 20:58
Location: WhiteBlue Country

Re: Strange going-ons at Red Bull

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Didi Mateschitz interview in Kleine Zeitung wrote: Q: Why don't you believe Red Bull Racing should install a number one?

DM: Because this philosophy is not keeping with my understanding of racing. You cannot just program a champion. Our two drivers know that they have to beat
a) the other and
b) they still need each other to take away as many points as possible from the competition.

If you ask me today who will be champion, I say one of our two drivers. But the pits must not interfere, because then the problems begin in earnest. We do not have a number one and a number two driver. Both drivers have cars to exactly the same standard. The problem with the new wing at Silverstone was the first exception.

Q:Letting both drivers continue to race head-to-head on equal terms opens up the risk of letting one of the team's rivals through to win the title?

DM: I think it is unlikely, but I would not rule it out. And if it should happen, my God we are talking about racing. The image of blood, sweat and tears is not by chance.

Q: Were you consulted by the team about the front wing choice before qualifying?

DM: The matter only became such a big story because it was communicated incorrectly both internally and to the media. It was unnecessary when Mark said over the radio: 'Not bad for a number two', but on the other side, Mark has done nothing wrong.

Q: Would it be better for the team to gag the drivers?

DM: Such a thing would not be our style. Everyone can tell the truth – which is one of the highest virtues of Red Bull.
I think that most people here did expect a different view from Mateschitz. I wonder if they even realized what he thought.
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best .............................. organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)

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Chaparral
0
Joined: 01 May 2008, 13:10
Location: New England District NSW Australia

Re: Strange going-ons at Red Bull

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WhiteBlue wrote:
BreezyRacer wrote:Well it's official .. WhiteBlue is really Helmut Marko ..
http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2010/07/m ... -red-bull/

:lol: :lol: :lol:

The funny side is that it took the british media one week to take a look over the garden fence and examine the points of the other side of this team mate war.

I always found it strange that Webber went on with his crusade after the wing thing was explained to him by Horner. It is entirely plausible that he did this on advise by Briatore as he already claimed to have spoken with Briatore before the race. Webber hinted that he regrets signing a contract after the race. That would also be in line with an attempt at overthrowing the last contract conditions and raising his salary from 5 to 8 millions. It would be a typical Briatore money grabbing scheme to use Horner's screw ups to put pressure on the team and have them appeasing him by money. Cleverly done but typically Briatore sleazy if it is true. Webber should split from Briatore. The association with that crook will damage him if he stays.
Thats a crock Gugs - Webber has nothing to do with Briatore these days and his partner Anne manages his affairs (always has) - note he was on $8.7 million 2 years ago according to BMW mag - that statement is a crock as are you - you can fool the people sometime but it will come back and bite you on the arse and if you want to know how I know - my journo mate is in contact with Mark & Anne on a weekly basis - slightly more credible than your b/s (on most subjects)
The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free and good men die like dogs - there's also the negative side' - Hunter S Thompson

andrew
andrew
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Joined: 16 Feb 2010, 15:08
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland - WhiteBlue Country (not the region)

Re: Strange going-ons at Red Bull

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Red Bull need to appoint a clear number 1 driver and put the number 2 firmly in their place before they loose another championship. Last year it was reliability, this year in-fighting. Either that or someone needs to stop Webber from shooting his mouth off, tell him F1 is a team game and that somethings are better dealt with behind closed doors face to face, not through the media.

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Chaparral
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Joined: 01 May 2008, 13:10
Location: New England District NSW Australia

Re: Strange going-ons at Red Bull

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Red Bull need to appoint a clear number 1 driver and put the number 2 firmly in their place before they loose another championship
Why Andrew - Im sure Barrichello wouldnt agree with you from his time at Ferrari - and theres many others - you race you win or you lose simple as that
The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free and good men die like dogs - there's also the negative side' - Hunter S Thompson

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JohnsonsEvilTwin
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Joined: 29 Jan 2010, 11:51
Location: SU 419113

Re: Strange going-ons at Red Bull

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Red Bull need to let Mark get on with handing Vettel hidings.

It may be a PR disaster for Red Bull, but at least they letting them race each other.
Please take note Ferrari and Mclaren!
More could have been done.
David Purley

autogyro
autogyro
53
Joined: 04 Oct 2009, 15:03

Re: Strange going-ons at Red Bull

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I do not see how an official number one and number two driver can be established at red bull.
Neither driver is displaying what is needed on or off track for number one status.
In fact both are responsible for losing the team valuable points.
Without the genius of Newey, the team would be well down the standings.
Team management needs to be improved and I do hope that Mark is not listening to that criminal Briatore, that would seal his fate and that of the team.
Horner is the one who needs to change his attitude. I do think he is good at his job in regard to handling the media and other outside forces. It is the way he appears to be dealing with the internal matters that need more focus.
He and the drivers should fully confront all the negative issues and deal with them. This should be Horners job and nobody elses.