What is "technical pace"(what parameters have you set to conclude your statement?)Farnborough wrote: ↑03 Aug 2023, 13:21This chassis I dont feel is anywhere near competent, there's just too many compromise built into it. 4th or 5th on technical pace
Guess 2023 R19 is already available for all to see..its 2024 evolution which may be kept secret. RBR are really ahead of the game and rest are just busy trying to copyValeVida46 wrote: ↑03 Aug 2023, 13:23Interesting perspective.
How would an aerodynamics team leader not be in the loop of what makes a concept work?
It depends upon the scope and breadth of the role. If you search LinkedIn for "Aerodynamics Team Leader" and company as "Red Bull Racing & Red Bull Technology", you will find a number of profiles (only focus on "current").ValeVida46 wrote: ↑03 Aug 2023, 13:23Interesting perspective.
How would an aerodynamics team leader not be in the loop of what makes a concept work?
A team leader will be a person running a group designing a particular part of the car - the front wing, for example, or the floor.Willy wrote: ↑03 Aug 2023, 13:41It depends upon the scope and breadth of the role. If you search LinkedIn for "Aerodynamics Team Leader" and company as "Red Bull Racing & Red Bull Technology", you will find a number of profiles (only focus on "current").ValeVida46 wrote: ↑03 Aug 2023, 13:23Interesting perspective.
How would an aerodynamics team leader not be in the loop of what makes a concept work?
This is profile of Enrico Balbo, who is the head of aerodynamics at Red Bull. This was the guy that Ferrari was chasing recently. He was an Aerodynamics Team Leader at Williams, 10 years back. It gives an impression that the "Team Leader" is quite a junior role.
https://i.postimg.cc/qRTgr28B/linkedin.png
https://scuderiafans.com/italian-media- ... .%E2%80%9D
He may already have served the gardening leave. He would still technically be employed by the team until the gardening leave ended.
I believe your categorisation of chassis performance is through exactly what I avoid by stating "technical" pace.ValeVida46 wrote: ↑03 Aug 2023, 13:40What is "technical pace"(what parameters have you set to conclude your statement?)Farnborough wrote: ↑03 Aug 2023, 13:21This chassis I dont feel is anywhere near competent, there's just too many compromise built into it. 4th or 5th on technical pace
The chassis compromise relative to Red Bull and Ferrari's ideology does not mean it cannot get consistent results track by track.
As we see from venue to venue, Mercedes are either 2nd, 3rd or on occasion 4th fastest. But they are consistently achieving their results, despite the compromise that goes beyond the reasoning of having 2 good drivers.
As we see Aston Martin running a near RB like philosophy, Mercedes are clearly faster the last few races.
Mercedes fell behind McLaren that literally sacrificed half it's season to most likely still finish behind Mercedes this year.
Ferrari flounder in spectacularly in some races with their tyre wear and pace, on occasion they crack it but infrequently.
When you add it all up, I feel that despite the flawed design, they're making a good fist of things by consistently being better on avg. And until next year we won't know conclusively if lessons learnt have had a positive impact.
If the W15 shows up with zeropods and a W13 derived floor as the W14, I'll be the first in line to throw shade.
Unless it's quick.
It may very well be a junior role, but this wouldn't preclude him from knowing how a concept works.
For equivalence sake then, if Hamilton and Fernando were to swap positions I don't really see much difference.Farnborough wrote: ↑03 Aug 2023, 14:15I believe your categorisation of chassis performance is through exactly what I avoid by stating "technical" pace.
To expand that, perhaps a more rounded word (no I'm not going to look at lap time history) could be "natural" or "latent" and pure performance. That not adjusted for race situation circumstance or driver skill set.
Consider a big IF for theoretical benchmarking. Would a swap of drivers Lewis with Lance likely see lewis in front of a) Lance (highly likely) and b) higher in the WDC championship? A little clunky toward the hypothetical I agree, but illustrative nonetheless.
Could we determine from that the AM possess a more inbuilt "technical pace" than the MB ? I think that's quite illustrative to consider what lays within each car. Lewus is where he is in combined (with car) pace he'll always pull it far forward.
In other words, with Lewis driving either chassis (AM or MB) in which is he most likely to be ahead, that one has better technical pace.
I specifically noted not to include the McL as early iteration by offering this significant swapping of their basic design application into this current car, it's not a comment on the respective season performance of theses two teams so far in championship results, dont use that angle for pure chassis performance evaluation, in effect its not this years team championship positions im proffering as judgement of the MB concept.
Just_a_fan wrote: ↑03 Aug 2023, 13:54A team leader will be a person running a group designing a particular part of the car - the front wing, for example, or the floor.
And it is doubtful that these roles work in isolation - if you're designing the floor or the diffuser, for example, you'll need to know what the rest of the aero is doing because it feeds in to your bit too.
Will he bring "the secret sauce"? No, unlikely. Why? Because there is no single secret ingredient in the sauce - it all works as a whole. He might know all of the ingredients but maybe not how much is a "pinch of this" and a "splash of that". It's entirely possible that no one knows the exact secret sauce recipe, even Newey.
I have not worked for any F1 team and I also believe more than 99% folks here haven't either. So how different the working procedures are for the designers, engineers and production folks, we can only take our wild imaginations there.ValeVida46 wrote: ↑03 Aug 2023, 15:13It may very well be a junior role, but this wouldn't preclude him from knowing how a concept works.
Unless Red Bull have a segregated aerodynamic department, which firewalls data from it's own team.
Not beyond the realms of possibility, but highly unlikely.
He will make a difference if he takes a leading role. There must be some comparison with systems, tools and culture that he can make that will help mercedes. In fact they need to hire more RB people.ValeVida46 wrote: ↑03 Aug 2023, 15:13It may very well be a junior role, but this wouldn't preclude him from knowing how a concept works.
Unless Red Bull have a segregated aerodynamic department, which firewalls data from it's own team.
Not beyond the realms of possibility, but highly unlikely.
He would also know who else would be useful to Merc, and probably have an idea of those willing to move to himringo wrote: ↑03 Aug 2023, 18:32He will make a difference if he takes a leading role. There must be some comparison with systems, tools and culture that he can make that will help mercedes. In fact they need to hire more RB people.ValeVida46 wrote: ↑03 Aug 2023, 15:13It may very well be a junior role, but this wouldn't preclude him from knowing how a concept works.
Unless Red Bull have a segregated aerodynamic department, which firewalls data from it's own team.
Not beyond the realms of possibility, but highly unlikely.