Red Bull RB8 Renault

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AnthonyG
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Joined: 03 Mar 2012, 13:16

Re: Red Bull RB8 Renault

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antrock wrote:
AnthonyG wrote:I don't believe the wing pilons are attached to that flexible material, but to the crash structure itself.
Image
Here is my idea.
Image
I think Red Bull uses the same in it's nose and that the wing pilons are mounted to that board.

Left is the basic idea, right is how I think it actually looks with crash structure and cables integrated.
Image

The rubber and twisty stuff we see here is just placed arround it to make it look nice etc.
It's perfectly legal afaik and relatively simple to setup.
Thank you really doesn't really describe enough what I feel. - Vettel

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siskue2005
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Joined: 11 May 2007, 21:50

Re: Red Bull RB8 Renault

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antrock wrote:on the first picture the mechanic is holding the new nose - lets say it weighs 5 kilos. while the guy removing the old wing tries to lift and pull the nose while it is still attached to the car - few hundreds kilos! you can't compare the two.
he is not lifting and pulling, just watch it without any bias.
he doesnot need to pull with 100s of kg upwards to remove the nosehe is just trying to lift it very slightly
see his right hand he just touching and pull it very lightly

it is clear that he crashed in the DRS marker and damaged his left nose cam support (refer my pics above)

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siskue2005
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Joined: 11 May 2007, 21:50

Re: Red Bull RB8 Renault

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AnthonyG wrote: I think Red Bull uses the same in it's nose and that the wing pilons are mounted to that board.

Left is the basic idea, right is how I think it actually looks with crash structure and cables integrated.

The rubber and twisty stuff we see here is just placed arround it to make it look nice etc.
It's perfectly legal afaik and relatively simple to setup.
that is not possible coz the wing support/ pylon is a part of crash structure
Last edited by Richard on 06 Nov 2012, 15:18, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Removed image quoted from earlier post

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aancora
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Joined: 28 Oct 2012, 15:49

Re: Red Bull RB8 Renault

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Kiril Varbanov wrote:Gazzetta has a video showing some suspension stuff going on with RBR:
http://video.gazzetta.it/analisi-cura-f ... 692606ca0e

My Italian did not appear to be that good, but I intercepted removable shock absorber to find the correct ride height for setup, or something similar. I will appreciate if someone can shed some more light.
I'm Italian :)

So, he say that RB use hydraulic controlled front suspensions only during the free practices (but illegal for the race and qualifying) for having a rapid feedback from the car during the research of the right setup. They control the highness by computer and by hydraulic sistem for getting up and down the car during the lap, but, I repeat, only in FP.

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siskue2005
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Joined: 11 May 2007, 21:50

Re: Red Bull RB8 Renault

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i think that is false, you cannot run an illegal car on a GP weekend, even during free practice
it is very strict rule....as soon as they go out on free practice they have to comply by rules.
that is why u dont see bird cage gizmos during free practice , but only during testings...instead we see flow viz

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elFranZ
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Joined: 27 Mar 2012, 14:00

Re: Red Bull RB8 Renault

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Kiril Varbanov wrote:Gazzetta has a video showing some suspension stuff going on with RBR:
http://video.gazzetta.it/analisi-cura-f ... 692606ca0e

My Italian did not appear to be that good, but I intercepted removable shock absorber to find the correct ride height for setup, or something similar. I will appreciate if someone can shed some more light.
basically and in great sum, he's talking about an active suspension system, only used in free practices to quickly find the right front heigh. The driver can set it on his own even while driving, saving much time in finding and trying setups.

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aancora
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Re: Red Bull RB8 Renault

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However, referring to the "rubber nose", I want to show you a particular fin made in carbon..Notice the deformability of the composite, it seems rubber but is CFRP. I saw with my own eyes, that's great.
Image

FROM 3:30 min you can see it ;) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3781ksWJl0

.poz
.poz
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Joined: 08 Mar 2012, 16:44

Re: Red Bull RB8 Renault

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siskue2005 wrote: compare two pics, even with slight load the broken win mount twists, where as the top pic the mechanic carries the entire wing on the camera mount!
and the broken wing mechanic is not twisting, he just happened to put weight on the left side first and then the second, whereby he realises its broken and moves to other part to grab it
I think that the camera are fixed to the rigid part of the nose by a support and mechanic normally use them to grab the nose with a firm grip.

Seb crush on the drs signal broke the camera support, so camera is hold in place just by the fluffy shell of the nose and some cables. So in RB nose there is a rigid part inside and a flexible shell.

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Kiril Varbanov
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Joined: 05 Feb 2012, 15:00
Location: Bulgaria, Sofia

Re: Red Bull RB8 Renault

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Thanks @aancora and @elFranZ for the translation, yes, I missed to say that I got the FP part, too. I'm certainly not accusing RBR in anything illegal - they are good until proven otherwise. I was just curious to understand what exactly that was, and now it makes sense. One more clever move.

wesley123
wesley123
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Joined: 23 Feb 2008, 17:55

Re: Red Bull RB8 Renault

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siskue2005 wrote:
AnthonyG wrote: I think Red Bull uses the same in it's nose and that the wing pilons are mounted to that board.

Left is the basic idea, right is how I think it actually looks with crash structure and cables integrated.
http://s16.postimage.org/a9r4b5gwl/photo_3.jpg

The rubber and twisty stuff we see here is just placed arround it to make it look nice etc.
It's perfectly legal afaik and relatively simple to setup.
that is not possible coz the wing support/ pylon is a part of crash structure
Okay then the front wing support is the same. Forming 2 carbon structures downwards, with a similar shell around it.
"Bite my shiny metal ass" - Bender

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siskue2005
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Joined: 11 May 2007, 21:50

Re: Red Bull RB8 Renault

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elFranZ wrote:
Kiril Varbanov wrote:Gazzetta has a video showing some suspension stuff going on with RBR:
http://video.gazzetta.it/analisi-cura-f ... 692606ca0e

My Italian did not appear to be that good, but I intercepted removable shock absorber to find the correct ride height for setup, or something similar. I will appreciate if someone can shed some more light.
basically and in great sum, he's talking about an active suspension system, only used in free practices to quickly find the right front heigh. The driver can set it on his own even while driving, saving much time in finding and trying setups.
Then again it is illegal to do that
The car must comply to rules for the entire weekend
Feel free to correct me if I m wrong, anyone?

bhall
bhall
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Joined: 28 Feb 2006, 21:26

Re: Red Bull RB8 Renault

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I think it's important to note that the pitstop nose twisting is a bit of a sideshow here. We've seen ample evidence of a bendy nose in the form of the Webber gif posted here and in still photos taken over the last couple of years. This is an area Red Bull are known to have explored. We're not seeing anything new; just more and more evidence of the same.

I'm going to toss it over to the dearly departed for a moment...
Ciro Pabón wrote:For large mechanical grip you need a soft suspension with big movements in the vertical plane.

However, you need to control the riding height of the front wing, which means you\'d wish hard springs.

There you have conflicting goals. What you would like is a suspension that stiffens under load (on a side note, the magnetic-rheological suspension could be used theoretically to achieve this).

When under large aerodynamic loads, the springs compress so much that you only have the tire sidewalls working as springs (and they are non-damped). The mass damper can help you amortiguate the load oscillations you get when running over a kerb or in the transitional phase of cornering. It is sort of a \"mechanical emergency patch\" for a car in which the riding height influences enormously the aerodynamic behaviour.
The following is a crude depiction of the device to which he referred. It was used by Renault from 2005 until it was somehow declared illegal in 2006.

Image

The following is a (decent) demonstration of how dampers work.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fuCdZLQOrAw[/youtube]

Now look at the Webber gif, and what do you see?

Image

Look at how stable the chassis remains as the car goes over the curb, even as the front and rear wings, as well as the mirrors, shake madly from the vibrations (which is common for all cars, though Red Bull's front wing obviously moves more than most). That chassis stability means consistent downforce from the floor/diffuser, which makes the car very stable under braking and through turns.

I'm convinced Red Bull uses its bendy nose and front wing like a mass damper.

Thoughts?

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raymondu999
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Joined: 04 Feb 2010, 07:31

Re: Red Bull RB8 Renault

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siskue2005 wrote:Then again it is illegal to do that
The car must comply to rules for the entire weekend
Feel free to correct me if I m wrong, anyone?
The car doesn't have to be legal in Free Practice
失败者找理由,成功者找方法

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aancora
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Joined: 28 Oct 2012, 15:49

Re: Red Bull RB8 Renault

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You're right! It seems that it has contemporarily the benefits of the mass damper and the flexible wing.

bucker
bucker
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Joined: 02 Aug 2012, 21:33

Re: Red Bull RB8 Renault

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1FmKH-eANw doesn't look like he hit it with nose cone...but that camera on right side is having some strange movement in slowmotion at 0:06