British GP 2011 - Silverstone

[Poleman]

A few points...

Vettel was much faster than Hamilton - just look what happened once he got clean air after his pit stop.

Vettel's top speed was higher than Hamiltons according the F1 website. Even with the help of DRS he couldn't overtake.

The siuation with Massa was not the same. Massa was on 15 lap old softs, whilst Vettel was on brand new softs - of course he is going to be able to simply drive past him.

Point 1: New tires, different story! We've seen it all season that the RedBull is faster out of the pits for the first 2-3 laps.

Point 2: He certainly didn't close significantly, so maybe that TopSpeed recording was while lapping or sth. similar. As he was behind Hamilton he didn't appear to have a top speed advantage.

Point 3: True, but then again he pulled the same maneuver on Hamilton only that Hamilton knew better how to defend....

I don't wanna say Vettel is a great overtaker, but to say he's rubbish because he didn't pass Hamilton yesterday is bulls***. He had no chance! He was never close enough, and it wasn't down to lack of ability!

Well i agree with most of the points being highlighted here but i have to add this.

What makes Hamilton (arguably by many) better than Vettel in terms of overtaking is that he doesnt fall for tricks and "blockings" that easy.Try to move slightly and scare the following car,Hamilton keeps it floored sticks it in there and makes the other driver bail out.(Overtake on Button in China,Alonso in silverstone going with the slicks on the full wet side e.t.c).It needs balls,Vettel could as well pull alongside and force Hamilton lift instead,he didnt.Thats a class difference.

On a final note,u cant rely on DRS and top speed only to overtake the leading driver.You need to have imagination and set up the perfect scenario in your mind first.Find the weak point and attack when the other is off guard.Vettel does not seem to have this ability yet as opposed to Hamiilton or Alonso/Schumacher e.t.c.

[kalinka]

I think this race wasn't that bad at all. Tyre useage relative to RBR and Ferrari is the main problem, and it's only in full dry conditions. Somehow the car overcooks the softs too quick, as someone mentioned already here. For a return, they were quick at the beginning of the stint ( fast tyre warming ), but suffered later with quick degradation. Hamilton could be 2nd easily wihout that fuel issue. They just calculated (realistically) that he would be down in order for quite long, and save fuel for later. Even in dry conditions they would have a chance, because then everyone would put on the hard tyre at the end, and McL was always very good with hard tyres. ( maybe for the exact same reason why it's not so good with softs ).

[WhiteBlue]

The only people that have problems passing other drivers without making contact are Vettel, Sutil, and possibly Kobayashi.

Your opinion is completely unsupported by the facts. Webber has shown time and again last season that he is prone to get into collisions with anybody and not just his team mate if you let him off the leash. Ask Kovalainen and Hamilton who both ended in tears with Webber.

The reasoning behind that radio call was to protect an 80 point lead for Vettel. 80 points. Vettel could sit out the next three races and still be in the lead. There's no real excuse for that call and if I were Webber I'd have my foot firmly up Horners ass for lying to me and the public. Catching him with a 5 second gap on the last lap is one thing, all over him like white on rice while clearly faster is another. He had him cold coming out of Woodcote and backed way off.

And you give the answer yourself. Horner knows that Webber will not be careful to conserve the points for his team unless he tells him not to pass. Webber disregarded the directions given to him by Ciaron Pilbeam just like he did in Turkey last year. Horner had to make the call personally to stop Webber making a risky attack on Vettel. Then Webber backed off because he knew his 2012 seat was going to go up in smoke if he didn't. Horner has all the rights to stop is guys from making risky moves in a situation where he could have lost all the advantage to Ferrari. He did not know at this time how the diffusor row would be resolved and was potentially facing a competitive Ferrari in the second half of the year.

[Ciro Pabón]

Vettel is a great champion. Hamilton is another one. Do we have to go in circles anymore? Are you actually saying that someone is better than anyone in any day? I can tell you with a tad of experience (this is my 45th season, people) that this is not true. Even Jesus wept...

[Traction]

Good to see that Wbber flat out ignored the team orders....




Webber insists team orders weren’t needed 11 Jul 2011

Red Bull’s Mark Webber has defended his decision to ignore pit-wall instructions in the closing stages of Sunday’s Silverstone race, insisting he and team mate Sebastian Vettel are quite capable of racing each other without coming to blows.

“The team was worried about Seb and me crashing because it wanted the points for the constructors’ championship,” said Webber. “I understand that, but I wanted points for the championship too and we proved that we can race without making contact.”

The Australian put Vettel, struggling on worn rubber, under intense pressure in the dying laps and admitted afterwards that he had ignored several calls from Red Bull telling him to back off. He eventually finished third, just 0.4s behind his German colleague.

“The team radioed me about four times, asking that I maintain the gap to Seb,” confirmed Webber. “But I wasn’t happy with that because you should never give up in F1, so I continued to push. If Fernando (Alonso) had retired on the last lap, we would have been battling for the lead.”

While Webber’s team bosses may not have been happy with his decision to race on - prompting further speculation over whether he will remain with them next season - Vettel had little problem with it, even if he did admit he could see both sides on the matter.

“Obviously, we were racing each other,” he said. “I don't think there's anything wrong with that. Sure, from a team point of view, if you have the cars quite isolated in second and third, the first car is away, the fourth car is pretty far away as well, so from the team's point of view, there's no point in racing and trying to do something stupid because the points for the team are the same, the difference between second and third is not massive, but naturally we try to race.”

The race result meant Vettel extended his lead over Webber at the top of the drivers’ championship table to 80 points, 204 to 124, with third-placed Alonso a further 12 adrift on 112. In the constructors’ table, Red Bull now lead McLaren 328 points to 218, with Ferrari third on 164.

From F1. com

[myurr]

And you give the answer yourself. Horner knows that Webber will not be careful to conserve the points for his team unless he tells him not to pass. Webber disregarded the directions given to him by Ciaron Pilbeam just like he did in Turkey last year. Horner had to make the call personally to stop Webber making a risky attack on Vettel. Then Webber backed off because he knew his 2012 seat was going to go up in smoke if he didn't. Horner has all the rights to stop is guys from making risky moves in a situation where he could have lost all the advantage to Ferrari. He did not know at this time how the diffusor row would be resolved and was potentially facing a competitive Ferrari in the second half of the year.

Whilst Horner has the right to make that call, we, as the end viewers that ultimately fund F1, also have the right to criticise him for doing so. We know you're a Vettel fan and will defend him until you are blue in the face, but what Horner did was highly hypocritical. He has previously danced around with glee when Ferrari used team orders saying that Red Bull let their guys race; the team owner has gone on record saying he'd rather they raced and lost than used team orders; and they've all always said Webber had a fair shot.

To hear Horner now bleating on about the team, when there would have been no difference to the team standings had the cars finished the other way around, is sickening - both as a fan of racing in general but also because of the stench of hypocrisy. If it was just about the team then they should have told Vettel to move aside and let Webber past. He didn't desperately need the points; Mark would have benefitted in his fight for 2nd in the championship; and the team would have received the same overall points haul for the constructors.

This wasn't about protecting the team as much as it was about protecting Vettel's ego and the invincible marketing image they are trying to build for him. Fans of racing and fair play across the world should be outraged at this cynical manipulation and public deceit. Memory of Austria 2002 is still fresh, and this action by Red Bull is very much in the same spirit.

[Traction]

Honesty....

http://www.crash.net/f1/news/171136/1/v ... ctory.html

[Kriss]

All about Silverston 2011 GP, )

[Ray]

Your opinion is completely unsupported by the facts. Webber has shown time and again last season that he is prone to get into collisions with anybody and not just his team mate if you let him off the leash. Ask Kovalainen and Hamilton who both ended in tears with Webber.

And you give the answer yourself. Horner knows that Webber will not be careful to conserve the points for his team unless he tells him not to pass. Webber disregarded the directions given to him by Ciaron Pilbeam just like he did in Turkey last year. Horner had to make the call personally to stop Webber making a risky attack on Vettel. Then Webber backed off because he knew his 2012 seat was going to go up in smoke if he didn't. Horner has all the rights to stop is guys from making risky moves in a situation where he could have lost all the advantage to Ferrari. He did not know at this time how the diffusor row would be resolved and was potentially facing a competitive Ferrari in the second half of the year.

Your ridiculous bias negates any argument you have. Webber was hit by Vettel in Turkey, Kovalainen was in the middle of the road and braked about 40 meters earlier than is normal (even in the POS he drives) causing a collision, and Lewis didn't give Webber enough room as noted multiple times by the BBC/SpeedTV broadcasters. Your arguments aren't supported by facts. The fact that Vettel holds a point lead of 80 over his teammate and Red Bull has something like 100 points over the next team tells me that Horner is lying and that it was never about the team, it was about Vettel. Your ridiculous notion about his seat being at risk because of him risking passing Vettel even if he was much faster is moot. The fact that he is not allowed to race Vettel with that big of a WDC and WCC cushion shows that his seat was never worth the paper it was written on and Horner is not good as his word.

For someone to say the things he says below, Horner is a liar and a hypocrite. If he can order Webber to not race his teammate for fear of a collision, and being that Vettel is the only guilty party between the two of them that hit his teammate in a passing maneuver, he could have just as easily told Vettel to move aside to not risk the very same accident he claims would have occurred. Fact is, he was told to stay back for reasons that aren't sound or factual. If Webber can't race his teammate who has an 80 point lead on him, risking his ability to keep second in the WDC for Red Bull, then his contract was never worth anything anyway. I like Vettel, I however don't like Horner lying to the public and Mark Webber to protect him.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lV36FVWLXHI[/youtube]

[SiLo]

It was a shame that they miscalculated the fuel levels, I think Hamilton could of held on to second if he wasn't in a fuel saving mode for so long and could really push on. The car actually looked pretty good tbh, just awful in qualifying for some reason.

[Holm86]

It was a shame that they miscalculated the fuel levels, I think Hamilton could of held on to second if he wasn't in a fuel saving mode for so long and could really push on. The car actually looked pretty good tbh, just awful in qualifying for some reason.

Yes. I think the McLaren team have done some --- ups over the last few years. speacially their qualifying strategy where the drivers just sit waiting in the pits untill the very last moment. Even when theres been warnings of rain.

[Banki]

It was a shame that they miscalculated the fuel levels, I think Hamilton could of held on to second if he wasn't in a fuel saving mode for so long and could really push on. The car actually looked pretty good tbh, just awful in qualifying for some reason.

Yes. He would have been able to overtake Vettel at the end of the race

[WhiteBlue]

we, as the end viewers that ultimately fund F1, also have the right to criticise him for doing so. We know you're a Vettel fan and will defend him until you are blue in the face, but what Horner did was highly hypocritical. He has previously danced around with glee when Ferrari used team orders saying that Red Bull let their guys race; the team owner has gone on record saying he'd rather they raced and lost than used team orders; and they've all always said Webber had a fair shot.

To hear Horner now bleating on about the team, when there would have been no difference to the team standings had the cars finished the other way around, is sickening - both as a fan of racing in general but also because of the stench of hypocrisy. If it was just about the team then they should have told Vettel to move aside and let Webber past. He didn't desperately need the points; Mark would have benefitted in his fight for 2nd in the championship; and the team would have received the same overall points haul for the constructors.

This wasn't about protecting the team as much as it was about protecting Vettel's ego and the invincible marketing image they are trying to build for him. Fans of racing and fair play across the world should be outraged at this cynical manipulation and public deceit. Memory of Austria 2002 is still fresh, and this action by Red Bull is very much in the same spirit.

As much as you deny it there is a totally different situation this year compared to last year. Webber is hopelessly behind in the championship and three extra points won't change that. A direct fight between team mates in the last two laps could have cost the team a ton of points as it did in Turkey last year. But with blinkers one cannot see that point. The fans can criticise whatever they like, but that doesn't necessarily mean it makes sense and is reasonable from a team's point of view.

[madly]

It was a shame that they miscalculated the fuel levels, I think Hamilton could of held on to second if he wasn't in a fuel saving mode for so long and could really push on. The car actually looked pretty good tbh, just awful in qualifying for some reason.

You forgot about weight that miscalculated fuel in Hamilton's car, which costs time on each lap. How can you assume P2 then?

[WhiteBlue]

Your arguments aren't supported by facts.

That is a pointless statement. You can make any kind of excuses but the facts remain that Webber has had a bunch of accidents of which I even forgot to mention the one in Korea. Sure his fans will always find a reason why it was not his fault to run into another car from behind or not to break after loosing control of his car in the rain. For me the guy simply is a loose cannon who cannot take orders when the team issues them. According to the rules the team has the right to do so and that is the main fact here which you conveniently forget. The fact that Horner had to come on the horn himself to make the order stick is ample proof of the fact that Webber has no discipline and cannot be trusted to deal with such a situation to the benefit of the team.