Renault race-fixing at Singapore 2008

[Moanlower]

Another mission completed by Max. Whether you like him or not, you got to give him credit by the way he got back at everyone who tried to hang him. They all underestimated him and payed severely for that.

I'm quite sure Max adviced Renault to get rid of Pat and especially Flav in exchange for a mild punishment, similar to what happened at Mclaren to get rid of Ron. Too bad for Pat though.. I wonder what he agreed with Flav to take the bullets and especially for not making use of the immunity. Probably because he was just as guilty and it wouldn't made much of a difference to drag Flav down with him.

I'm not a big fan of Prost since i'm pro Senna, but it would be nice to see him back as Renault's team boss.

[WhiteBlue]

But it's Flav whose reputation is now destroyed. Who wants to have him as manager any more? No one I tell you.
Goodbye Flav. At least I don't have to see you wearing that man-thong anymore.

So after all these years we now have confirmation that Flabby is a trickster and cheater. I have been waiting for this for a long time. Actually since Silverstone 1994. On that day I was sitting in the grand stand opposite the pits and watching Michael Schumacher being red flagged because Briatore told him not to serve a silly punishment. Michael went on to get a two race ban for listening to his boss. I was furious.

Alonso is lucky that he did not get painted with the tar brush for being in Briatore's team. Michael Schumacher was not so lucky. Over the years people have treid to hang a lotof negative stuff on him which really was Briatore's making.

[i70q7m7ghw]

Interesting observation: This is the second team Alonso has been driving for that has been implicated in cheating, and it appears both times he's known about it...

At McLaren he knew about the data because his emails showed he was discussing it with De La Rosa. At Renault its said that Alonso knew all about the plan... and to be honest from his body language and reaction at the end of the GP it does look that way.

[dumrick]

This was already anticipated by last week's Auto-Hebdo: this whole deal was aimed at Mosley getting from Renault what he had already gotten from McLaren - the head of top cats. The real question being to know if Renault would follow Flav out of F1, it seems that the worst case scenario wasn't confirmed.

[BreezyRacer]

It's really gonna hurt to lose one of the few remaining engine mfrs. I imagine that Renault is gonna get a very hefty penalty/fine for this, especially after the large fine imposed on McLaren recently. How do you fine less than that amount and call it "fair"?

And why should Renault continue on F1 after this is found to be true. The entire brand is now tainted to the extreme. They have nothing to win to stay in the series. This will be a game changer at this moment when we have lots of new teams, to lose an engine mfr.

[xpensive]

All that can be made for certain from this is that a deal has been done, including Briatore and Symonds leaving, no matter how much some of the members of this forum would like to read into it. There's still a hearing on Monday btw.

[Ciro Pabón]

I merged the thread opened about "Renault sacks Briatore and Symonds" with this one, it seems they treat the same issues.

[WhiteBlue]

All that can be made for certain from this is that a deal has been made, including Briatore and Symonds leaving, no matter how much some of the members of this forum would like to read into it. There's still a hearing on Monday btw.

So what is the anticipated result of the hearing in your view? Surely we cannot expect a verdict of innocence? After all the accused have said they are not defending against the charges which is effectively a second class admission of guilt.

[ESPImperium]

Alain Prost and Jorg Zander for Team Principle and Technical Director now???

[Ciro Pabón]

I think the team will be stripped of points and will have to pay a penalty. Prost might come in as team director. Maybe we will see a couple of scandalous headlines when Piquet gets frustrated by the result of the inquiry. That's it.

[SZ]

It reflects really poorly that they have such an attitude or, in the unlikely event it is actually an insider leaking stuff without permission, such poor security over some pretty sensitive documents.

What's poor about it? As a campaign to get a result, it's worked.

This was already anticipated by last week's Auto-Hebdo: this whole deal was aimed at Mosley getting from Renault what he had already gotten from McLaren - the head of top cats.

Pffft - crap.

Interesting observation: This is the second team Alonso has been driving for that has been implicated in cheating, and it appears both times he's known about it...

But no-one's after him...

So after all these years we now have confirmation that Flabby is a trickster and cheater.

Who isn't in F1? Seriously...

Too bad for Pat though.. I wonder what he agreed with Flav to take the bullets and especially for not making use of the immunity.

The vehicle used to discredit Flav unfortunately was a meeting Pat was privy to. Collateral damage. Though he's still got his immunity - the FIA can't fine or otherwise penalize him on Monday.

I'm not a big fan of Prost since i'm pro Senna, but it would be nice to see him back as Renault's team boss.

Prost has been as successful a team boss and businessman as Briatore has been a professional driver.

So my entire conspiracy theory mentioned a few pages ago came true. They wanted to get rid of Flav and succeeded. Frankly, FOTA couldn't have saved him from this embarrassment.

The point is to nuke any serious ambitions to a breakaway series, and that's a FOTA series headed by Flav. As Flav's the only serious commercially/politically savvy part of FOTA, and McLaren and Ferrari are sweet with the FIA now that we have practically no budget cuts for next year, to kill the threat there's only Flav to get rid of.

But it's Flav whose reputation is now destroyed. Who wants to have him as manager any more? No one I tell you.

Horseshit. Flav was booted out of F1 once before and came back, successfully. He's a survivor.

Max has one last stand at the FIA this Monday. It'll be interesting to see the degree to which he uses it to attempt to bury Flav - as if giving the driver that executed the crime and the engineer that orchestrated it immunity wasn't enough. Worse attempts at race fixing have got past the FIA just fine in the past - this approach is deliberately very selective.

Alain Prost and Jorg Zander for Team Principle and Technical Director now???

Only if you're after the beginning of the end of Renault F1.

[jonathan189]

What infuriates me about this is that we may never know the truth.

Renault have forced out Briatore and Symonds to save face. A company of Renault's size could not allow a scandal of this magnitude to drag on.

The scandal was, of course, fuelled by numerous leaks of confidential documents by the FIA.

In short, Briatore has been character-assassinated. It's almost as if someone in the FIA had a longstanding grudge against him... I wonder who that could be!

But here is what we don't know: did Briatore really do it? Quite simply, the evidence does not establish beyond reasonable doubt that he did.

Inconclusive telemetry, innocuous radio tapes, a statement from a hostile witness and some non-answers from the suspects – that’s all they had.

[PlatinumZealot]

I think he did.. he just looks like that type of guy.

[Pup]

Sorry, SZ, but I think this theory of your's of all this being about FOTA is way far off the mark. I mean, your basic premise - think about it, how would removing Flavio from Renault prevent him from heading up a competing series?

And for those who think this is all some grand scheme cooked up my Mosely, remember that Max brushed aside a chance to go after Flavio a few years ago when Renault was caught with McLaren's data.

Max has his petty jealousies, and will act on them when given the chance, but unlike the deal with Dennis, where he really had to work at it, this whole thing just fell in his lap. Flavio and Symonds and the rest of them have been corrupt from day one, and they just finally got caught, end of story.

[jonathan189]

Sorry, SZ, but I think this theory of your's of all this being about FOTA is way far off the mark. I mean, your basic premise - think about it, how would removing Flavio from Renault prevent him from heading up a competing series?

Because's he's been disgraced...