Turkish GP 2011 - Istanbul

[beelsebob]

Maybe you should reread the thread and watch the race again, because you are seriously going off track here.

Maybe you should. We can compare...

Stint 1 – Hamilton --- up and ended up packed behind people, causing his tyres to go off.
Stint 2 – Hamilton came out behind Rosberg, again causing his tyres to go off.
Stint 3 – Hamilton lost 2 seconds to vettel over the entire course of the stint.
Pit 3 – Hamilton loses 15 seconds due to a --- wheel nut
Stint 4 – Hamilton gains about a second to vettel (ignoring vettel's pit stop).
Stint 5 - Hamilton gains about 3 seconds to vettel.

So conclusion – stints 1 and 2 were ruined for various reasons causing him to lose a bunch of time, pit 3 didn't help. Stint 3, 4 and 5 showed hamilton making up about 1-2 seconds over all. Conclusion – Hamilton's race pace was more than okay if no one cocked up. People did cock up, this caused his race pace not to be okay.

[Mchamilton]

Maybe you should reread the thread and watch the race again, because you are seriously going off track here.

Maybe you should. We can compare...

Stint 1 – Hamilton --- up and ended up packed behind people, causing his tyres to go off.
Stint 2 – Hamilton came out behind Rosberg, again causing his tyres to go off.
Stint 3 – Hamilton lost 2 seconds to vettel over the entire course of the stint.
Pit 3 – Hamilton loses 15 seconds due to a --- wheel nut
Stint 4 – Hamilton gains about a second to vettel (ignoring vettel's pit stop).
Stint 5 - Hamilton gains about 3 seconds to vettel.

So conclusion – stints 1 and 2 were ruined for various reasons causing him to lose a bunch of time, pit 3 didn't help. Stint 3, 4 and 5 showed hamilton making up about 1-2 seconds over all. Conclusion – Hamilton's race pace was more than okay if no one cocked up. People did cock up, this caused his race pace not to be okay.

mclaren's pace is at least equal to ferrari and red bull, their quali miles better than ferrari's and only 2-3 10ths behind red bull (at istanbul at least takin ultimate laps into account)

hopefully with a nice big upgrade in spain, tighten up the coolin and trim down the back of side pods if possible, surely they can improve the front wing to be more optimised to direct air over the sidepods.. we'll be up there in spain, should be easily the second fastest team in qualy as no doubt RBR will be flying there like they were last year..

[Jimi_Hendrix_1967]

Lap 14: Hamilton is now chasing Rosberg, with Massa behind him as they scrap behind Kobayashi on the road.

Lap 14: Hamilton is looking to get into position for the comfortable DRS pass on Rosberg down into Turn 12.

Lap 15: It happens this time around as the McLaren darts to the inside and is the next man to blow clean past Rosberg into Turn 12.<<

And that was that. The next 15 orso laps Hamilton had nobody ahead of him. How much time did he lose on Rosberg? About 8 tenths.

3 L. HAMILTON
LAP TIME LAP TIME

13 1:34.493
14 1:33.036
15 1:33.832
16 1:33.781
17 1:33.862
18 1:34.073
19 1:34.865
20 P 1:35.871
21 1:49.020
22 1:33.581
23 1:33.927
24 1:32.848
25 1:32.709
26 1:32.829
27 1:32.762
28 1:32.572
29 1:32.671

Lap 20: Hamilton is now 16 seconds off the lead in fourth and doesn't have great pace at this stage in the 1m34s bracket."

[beelsebob]

Lap 14: Hamilton is now chasing Rosberg, with Massa behind him as they scrap behind Kobayashi on the road.

Lap 14: Hamilton is looking to get into position for the comfortable DRS pass on Rosberg down into Turn 12.

Lap 15: It happens this time around as the McLaren darts to the inside and is the next man to blow clean past Rosberg into Turn 12.<<

And that was that. The next 15 orso laps Hamilton had nobody ahead of him. How much time did he lose on Rosberg? About 8 tenths.

Making the assumption that running in another car's dirty air through turn 8 (not forgetting the rest of the track) has no impact on your tyres. As an aside – we're not certain where it was that the front wing AoA was changed – it may well have been in pit stop 2. You also conveniently ignore the second half of stint 3 where his pace picked up again to be on a par with vettel. Could it be perhaps that he was in... I don't know... a fuel saving phase?

[Jimi_Hendrix_1967]

True, but even after stop 2, and with new, unimpaired tyres his times were still not good. Also, other cars on destroyed tyres behind other cars (Webber/Alonso) were able to set much better times and put Hamilton on a nice 17 second deficit. Surely then that must be a flaw in the Mclaren car race pace?

[beelsebob]

True, but even after stop 2, and with new, unimpaired tyres his times were still not good.

After stop 2 he lost a grand total of 2 seconds to the leader in the next stint. This is hardly "not good".

[andartop]

...Or it could be that Vettel, leading comfortably, was just controlling his pace throughout the whole race according to his closest rivals'?

Which came first: the egg or the chicken? Answer that and you have your answer about Ferrari's and McLaren's pace!

[beelsebob]

...Or it could be that Vettel, leading comfortably, was just controlling his pace throughout the whole race according to his closest rivals'?

unlikely, given that Webber and Alonso were going flat out trying to pass each other, and ultimately, Webber is the one we care about, given that the assertion from hamilton was that without the --- they could have been 2nd or 3rd.

Which came first: the egg or the chicken? Answer that and you have your answer about Ferrari's and McLaren's pace!

If you're going to chose a paradox, at least make it a paradoxical one. The egg, for two reasons
1. there were eggs for a lot of creatures before chickens existed.
2. the first chicken came out of something

[Jimi_Hendrix_1967]

Vettel claimed he had pace in reserve 'in case we needed to react'.

''But being in the lead and having this extra cushion plus we also had the pace in case we had to react. We never had someone really close behind which might be a completely different situation.''

[beelsebob]

Vettel claimed he had pace in reserve 'in case we needed to react'.

''But being in the lead and having this extra cushion plus we also had the pace in case we had to react. We never had someone really close behind which might be a completely different situation.''

Sure, I don't doubt Vettel could have gone faster, I do doubt Webber could have.

[andartop]

..So, you concluded that Hamilton could have kept up pace with Webber, rather than the McLaren car could have had the same pace as the Red Bull car?

[Jimi_Hendrix_1967]

True, but even after stop 2, and with new, unimpaired tyres his times were still not good.

After stop 2 he lost a grand total of 2 seconds to the leader in the next stint. This is hardly "not good".

Yet in the end he finished 40 seconds behind the leader. 13 of those from a botched pit stop. Hamilton must have lost the other 27 seconds somewhere else, and not just behind Button no? And then to think Vettel wasnt even pushing. Id say Mclaren being on the level of Red Bull is far fetched. Not even Alonso claims his car is on their level.

[beelsebob]

True, but even after stop 2, and with new, unimpaired tyres his times were still not good.

After stop 2 he lost a grand total of 2 seconds to the leader in the next stint. This is hardly "not good".

Yet in the end he finished 40 seconds behind the leader. 13 of those from a botched pit stop. Hamilton must have lost the other 27 seconds somewhere else, and not just behind Button no?

Yes – in the first 2 stints, one of which was spent tucked up behind other cars and then with ruined tyres, the other of which was spent tucked up behind a car, with somewhat damaged tyres, and both of which were spent (probably) with too high an AoA on his front wing. Have we not been through this enough?

[Jimi_Hendrix_1967]

Thats not true; way into his third stint, in free air, with new tyres, he was 16.8 seconds behind Vettel come lap 28. If you state Hamilton was on the pace from lap 35 onwards he must have lost another 10 seconds on Vettel in just 7 laps.

[beelsebob]

Thats not true; way into his third stint, in free air, with new tyres, he was 16.8 seconds behind Vettel come lap 28. If you state Hamilton was on the pace from lap 35 onwards he must have lost another 10 seconds on Vettel in just 7 laps.

Uh no, on lap 28 he was 26.847 seconds behind Vettel.