Red Bull RB9 Renault

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter do not belong here.
User avatar
Cuky
65
Joined: 07 Dec 2011, 19:41
Location: Rab, Croatia

Re: Red Bull RB9 Renault

Post

dxpetrov wrote:This car is just a feast for eyes! =D>
except this purple patches of color. I liked it more without it

stefan_
stefan_
696
Joined: 04 Feb 2012, 12:43
Location: Bucharest, Romania

Re: Red Bull RB9 Renault

Post

Barcelona (Test 3, Session 2) - Day 2 (01.03.2013)
Image

Image
"...and there, very much in flames, is Jacques Laffite's Ligier. That's obviously a turbo blaze, and of course, Laffite will be able to see that conflagration in his mirrors... he is coolly parking the car somewhere safe." Murray Walker, San Marino 1985

User avatar
raymondu999
54
Joined: 04 Feb 2010, 07:31

Re: Red Bull RB9 Renault

Post

The following is an excerpt from Mark Hughes' MPH column in the 28 February edition of Autosport:
Ross Brawn, who said: “Maybe their exhaust solution [regarding rear-bodywork design] was based on the idea that there would be more leeway with the mapping. [The Renault-engined] Red Bull’s and Lotus’s solution is problematic off-throttle, because in off-throttle mode there is less blowing from the exhaust and therefore less downforce contribution by the exhaust, which means that one has to rely more on the Coke bottle [profile of the rear bodywork]. But the Coke bottle on the Red Bull and Lotus is less pronounced because of their ramp behind the tailpipe. Therefore, their solution is inferior at corner entry compared to the solution pioneered by McLaren, and which all the teams except Red Bull and Lotus followed. It’s possible that they wanted to compensate with clever engine mapping.”
The design choice of exhaust layout is essentially whether or not to compromise the extent of the Coke bottle-style cut-in of the rear lower bodywork by partially blocking it with an exhaust-exit ramp that allows you to target the exhaust flow over the downforce- producing components to better effect. You can either have a McLaren-style sharply-defined Coke-bottle section that enhances the speed of the airflow along the flanks and over the brake ducts and diffuser top, but with compromised exhaust-enhanced downforce. Or you can go the Red Bull route and have ideal exhaust positioning at the cost of compromised airflow from the Coke-bottle section. This would be expected to give you superior downforce to the McLaren layout on-throttle but less off-throttle.
It pretty much tallies with what I thought. The ramp/tunnel solution provides a more pronounced exhaust effect, as the exhaust is isolated from any possibility of external interference. But of course given the increased obstruction to the path of other airflow there would be more drag thanks to the boundary layers, and also a less powerful effect from all other airflows (other than the exhaust-derived airflow). As I posted early on in another thread: http://www.f1technical.net/forum/viewto ... =6&t=14500
raymondu999 wrote:I think the difference really just stems from there. The Red Bull style, I would think, has a much stronger exhaust effect as the effect is shielded from any other flows, but at the cost of added drag, as obviously there will be additional boundary layers and additional choking issues to contend with.

IMO the reason why more people went McLaren is that it was easier to set up - but at the cost that the exhaust effect would be less, as the exhaust direction will be much more affected by other flows of air.
Regarding helping them regain the coke-bottle efficiency, it's an interesting problem - one that in my opinion Lotus and Red Bull have tackled in completely diverging solutions. The Lotus ramp terminates all the way near the diffuser - I think they're trying to completely scavenge whatever airflow they can into their tunnel, so that it "replaces" their original coke bottle, to help them with off-throttle downforce. The Red Bull, however - has terminated its exhaust ramp earlier. IMO this basically is so that the air can flow more "naturally" around the ramp itself as well. If you looked at the car from an aerial shot, it does look like there is a coke bottle shape forming behind the entire ramp/tunnel on the RB9 - so that when the exhaust gas isn't there, the air goes back into a more natural coke bottle. A "secondary" coke bottle, if you will.
失败者找理由,成功者找方法

User avatar
Juzh
161
Joined: 06 Oct 2012, 08:45

Re: Red Bull RB9 Renault

Post

Best explanation so far!

munudeges
munudeges
-14
Joined: 10 Jun 2011, 17:08

Re: Red Bull RB9 Renault

Post

raymondu999 wrote:I think the difference really just stems from there. The Red Bull style, I would think, has a much stronger exhaust effect as the effect is shielded from any other flows, but at the cost of added drag, as obviously there will be additional boundary layers and additional choking issues to contend with.

IMO the reason why more people went McLaren is that it was easier to set up - but at the cost that the exhaust effect would be less, as the exhaust direction will be much more affected by other flows of air.
Without getting into the minute details, which is always impossible with aerodynamics, I think that about sums it up. Perhaps the reason why Lotus and Red Bull are more anxious about drag reduction is just that - clawing back what they're losing through drag.

Red Bull and Lotus are trying to guide and coax exhaust gas to the rear of the car losing as little energy as possible. It doesn't take much of a stretch to work out that getting that to work aerodynamically is more complex, as we saw with Red Bull last year when they spent over half of the season getting the thing to work. They persisted and won.

Seriously, Red Bull went in that direction last season and it shouldn't have been a shock to any other team to see it continue and maybe one or two other teams picking it up this season. What have they been playing at?

shelly
shelly
136
Joined: 05 May 2009, 12:18

Re: Red Bull RB9 Renault

Post

DId the top central cooling outlet have this hourglass shape last year also? I noticed it just now

http://img1.auto-motor-und-sport.de/Seb ... 664861.jpg
twitter: @armchair_aero

User avatar
amouzouris
105
Joined: 14 Feb 2011, 20:21

Re: Red Bull RB9 Renault

Post

shelly wrote:DId the top central cooling outlet have this hourglass shape last year also? I noticed it just now

http://img1.auto-motor-und-sport.de/Seb ... 664861.jpg
It did! I thought the same thing but i looked at some last year's photos and it is the same

shelly
shelly
136
Joined: 05 May 2009, 12:18

Re: Red Bull RB9 Renault

Post

Speaking of last year's pictures, here's what I found while I was checking in the rb8 thread, in a post from Crucial dated 24 february 2012:
Crucial_Xtreme wrote:New RB8 DRS & Central Support

http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/1010/clausell.jpg
image via Clausell_F1
The pillar was used in testing only; after that was seen only in Abudhabi test and appears again now. My idea is that is not related to drd, as it looks the same as 12 months ago.
twitter: @armchair_aero

wesley123
wesley123
204
Joined: 23 Feb 2008, 17:55

Re: Red Bull RB9 Renault

Post

New rear wing end plate, featuring horizontal slits with the slight downward bend close to the wing profile
"Bite my shiny metal ass" - Bender

User avatar
RicerDude
27
Joined: 10 Sep 2012, 20:21

Re: Red Bull RB9 Renault

Post

Image

New vanity panel and FW endplates?

stefan_
stefan_
696
Joined: 04 Feb 2012, 12:43
Location: Bucharest, Romania

Re: Red Bull RB9 Renault

Post

Barcelona (Test 3, Session 2) - Day 3 (02.03.2013)

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image
"...and there, very much in flames, is Jacques Laffite's Ligier. That's obviously a turbo blaze, and of course, Laffite will be able to see that conflagration in his mirrors... he is coolly parking the car somewhere safe." Murray Walker, San Marino 1985

User avatar
Forza
238
Joined: 08 Sep 2010, 20:55

Re: Red Bull RB9 Renault

Post

Another angle of that tyre wake rake they've been using this morning
Image

User avatar
amouzouris
105
Joined: 14 Feb 2011, 20:21

Re: Red Bull RB9 Renault

Post

They are using a new tunnel as well. Look at the lower rearward part of it.

User avatar
RicerDude
27
Joined: 10 Sep 2012, 20:21

Re: Red Bull RB9 Renault

Post

There is a strange looking step on the tub as well.

User avatar
DarkJRO
4
Joined: 11 Feb 2013, 09:24
Location: Germany

Re: Red Bull RB9 Renault

Post

is it me, or is there a new outlet just in front of the frontend of the upper wishbone?
Greetings
Dark JRO