2013 Italian GP - Monza

[Kiril Varbanov]

The race edit video from FOM is available - http://www.formula1.com/video/?uid=2013090812R

[Hail22]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fY_bIuVFa-Q[/youtube]

[raymondu999]

Is it possible Vettel had an issue at the start? Re-watching the race, Vettel had a similar front right lockup under trail braking into a right hander on the FORMATION lap - when he wouldn't exactly be pushing.

[FoxHound]

Is it possible Vettel had an issue at the start? Re-watching the race, Vettel had a similar front right lockup under trail braking into a right hander on the FORMATION lap - when he wouldn't exactly be pushing.

He would be trying to get as much heat as possible into the tyres.
Heavy braking helps.

[iotar__]

What do you mean by issue? If he had 0,001% possibility of ANY technical issue Horner and co. would be shouting about it dramatically five times during and after the race to make it look like they had to work super hard for this win. His issue was locking wheels and flatspotting a tyre (driving) that caused vibration later. He did it twice? I give him 10 points for consistency as Coulthard says :wink .

Since someone re-opened this thread I'm more interested in opinions on Hamilton/Button/Sutil blatantly cutting chicane at the start. Don't tell me they didn't gain any advantage or they were forced - no to both. They weren't avoiding any collisions, weren't pushed like Perez and didn't even bother to try to make it the slower way, apart from Hamilton who changed his mind halfway and decided sod it, it's quicker that way. No sympathy for him then when he had tyre problem later.

[raymondu999]

He would be trying to get as much heat as possible into the tyres.
Heavy braking helps.

He would have had experience of warming the brakes and tyres up throughout the entire lap - more than enough to gain experience on the level of grip he had. A driver of Vettel's caliber and experience shouldn't be making a lockup on a FORMATION lap.

What do you mean by issue?

I said, an issue at the start.

[FoxHound]

He would have had experience of warming the brakes and tyres up throughout the entire lap - more than enough to gain experience on the level of grip he had. A driver of Vettel's caliber and experience shouldn't be making a lockup on a FORMATION lap.

To err is human.
What makes you think it is an issue out of interest?
On the formation lap you see brake lockups all the time, it's not an indication to any particular problem than the obvious "heat into tyres".

[raymondu999]

What makes you think it is an issue out of interest?

Precisely the opposite of:

On the formation lap you see brake lockups all the time

We rarely see lockups on formation laps, actually - not all the time. Barring force majeure such as someone having something broken, or swerving to avoid an incident.

[FoxHound]

It is not as rare an occurrence as you suggest.

Brundle explains that on a formation lap, a driver will be "pumping" the brake peddle whilst trying to avoid locking up.
Getting heat into the tyre and brakes is essential.
Lock ups will occur in these instances, not always, but they happen.
It is far more likely that Vettel had too much pressure on the brake peddle at that point, or his brake bias was orientated too far forwards. You know, it is even plausible the guy made a mistake.....These aren't mammoth issues, they can be adjusted from within the car.

Here's a video to help with the explanation.

[raymondu999]

If it was just a case of Vettel locking up into T1 - fine, mistake. But I don't believe someone of Vettel's level will be locking up on formation laps, especially in the last corner of the formation lap.

[FoxHound]

If it was just a case of Vettel locking up into T1 - fine, mistake. But I don't believe someone of Vettel's level will be locking up on formation laps, especially in the last corner of the formation lap.

Perhaps the brakes weren't up to the required heat level at the last meaningful point where Vettel could inject heat into them?
As you are holding Vettel in such high esteem, seems to suggest you think him infallible?

[raymondu999]

I think him infallible on formation laps.

[FoxHound]

I think him infallible on formation laps.

So you think Vettel to incapable of error on formation laps? Just to be clear.

[raymondu999]

2013-spec Vettel IS infallible on formation laps, yes.

[FoxHound]

2013-spec Vettel IS infallible on formation laps, yes.

Well your view has changed somewhat.
So your opinion is "2013-spec" Vettel did not lock up whilst trying to heat the brakes and tyres, so it must be the brakes at fault, correct? Therefore maintaining his infallibility throughout 2013(your opinion as expressed previously).

Did Vettel have any further brake issues throughout the race?
Monza has the heaviest braking zone in F1, as it has the highest speed going into one of the slowest corners. Overall it is 2nd behind Montreal in terms of demand on brakes. Yet apart from the very first corner of the race, where Vettel locked up again(Do you reason it was brakes failing him, again?), Vettel appeared to have no further issues during the race.
After the race was not even the slightest mention of the brakes being an issue. Not a peep.

As I have stated before, I believe it is either brake balance, or too much brake pressure being applied. Either way it is down to the driver to sort out, and therefore driver related error.
We can see that it happened on the warm up lap, and into turn 1 of the race. After that nothing.

Brake problems do not mysteriously go away.