2017 Austrian Grand Prix, Spielberg 7-9 Jul

[Xwang]

What about Bottas start?
Replays show he is already moving before the red lights turn off.

[Phil]

Once again, GPR-A is right on the money.

Hamilton's outlap was faster than the gap between him and Kimi. Not sure how Kimi could have jumped him by pitting the next lap. Some just see things they wish. Ferrari must hope that the engine upgrade must work as intended. Mercs are faster when it matters. Can't overtake with so little to choose from.

You're not seeing the big picture. No one is suggesting that Ferrari should have pitted Kimi right away. The overall point is that Hamilton optimum strategy would have been to go long on the SS, much longer than they did, to get maximum effectiveness on the US for the last stint. They ended up pitting him early because he was being held up by Kimi and couldn't find a way past. So they compromised his strategy early on to go for the undercut.

This then meant that within that one lap, Hamilton was virtually ahead of Kimi. Done deal. But not quite. Because Hamilton now was facing of having to go much longer than intended on the softer tire, where as Kimi was going to end up on the more durable and harder tire. Then another interesting thing happened: Hamilton was quicker than Kimi, but not substantially and he was also very vocal about not having a lot of rear stability ("too much front wing"). If they had pitted Kimi earlier or at that point, they could have put more pressure on Hamilton by keeping Kimi close. The longer the race would have gone on, the more pressure this would have meant for Hamilton because he was on the softer, less durable tire. Also, when Kimi was finally pitted for SS, he had very very good pace. He was doing fastest lap times at that point. So the argument falls flat that Kimi was just off the pace. He may have been on the first stint, but he had track position over Hamilton and by forcing Mercedes to compromise Lewis's strategy, they could have competed better for that 4th position with Kimis car.

Now, I perfectly get the logic behind keeping Kimi out. It made perfect sense for Ferrari to do that in light of the championship. The only point that IMO made it a stretch to beginn with, is that Bottas on his first stint demonstrated a very distinct performance advantage. I didn't think he'd be held up by Kimi long and that proved to be correct. I also mislike how they were playing mind games with Kimi about him racing Lewis. At that point, he was far off - a pit stop would have put him around 8 seconds behind. With every lap they were keeping him out, they were compromising Kimi's race more relative to Hamiltons.

In the end, I was surprised how close Vettel got to Bottas. Not sure what went on there and why Bottas didn't have the pace anymore, but I do find it a pity that Ferrari are so publicly asking more from Kimi, yet at the same time it seems that at every opportunity, they are willing to play him as a pawn in order to maximise their chances with Vettel. It is what it is.

[fiohaa]

Does anyone know the exact wording in the rule books on anticipated starts?
Is it just opinion or has it been quantified?
Because judging by the onboard, Bottas reacted within 0.04s (1/25 seconds per frame) of the lights going out.
How could the stewards have possibly calculated 0.2xx as his reaction time???

Anthony Davidson played it frame by frame, and bottas wheels are turning on the very next frame after the light goes out.

[JonoNic]

It's raining!

[TAG]

The start from Bottas was investigated and he was found not to have jumped the start, it's been discussed. Can we finally move on?

[evered7]

Once again, GPR-A is right on the money.

Hamilton's outlap was faster than the gap between him and Kimi. Not sure how Kimi could have jumped him by pitting the next lap. Some just see things they wish. Ferrari must hope that the engine upgrade must work as intended. Mercs are faster when it matters. Can't overtake with so little to choose from.

You're not seeing the big picture. No one is suggesting that Ferrari should have pitted Kimi right away.

Kimi ended up on SS v Hamilton on US with no dirty air problem. You really think Kimi was going to take on Hamilton? Also after the first few laps, Hamilton was on the pace of Kimi & Ricciardo ahead of him and that is why he ended up challenging Ric for the podium while Kimi was again nowhere.

[Phil]

I'm fairly certain the start will be reinvestigated.... Ferrari can smell victory.

[Santozini]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9hUuOV ... e=youtu.be

Can Ferrari appeal?

Seems like a jump start to me

[fiohaa]

The start from Bottas was investigated and he was found not to have jumped the start, it's been discussed. Can we finally move on?

But it hasn't been discussed, even Brundle said there's more to come from it.
But that is not the question I'm even asking. The very fact that I've asked a question around it has already triggered you. Typical forum behaviour.

I am asking how the anticipation rule is worded in the rules.
It obviously wasn't a normal jump start. He started after the lights went out.

The point is how soon after the light goes out is it deemed acceptable, and how the reaction time is calculated given that, from the onboard, he clearly starts turning on the very next frame, which is 0.04s.

I am raising perfectly valid questions, so contribute appropriately or ignore the post.

[evered7]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9hUuOV ... e=youtu.be

Can Ferrari appeal?

Seems like a jump start to me

Wowzer! I am surprised they missed this during the race. If a normal YT video can show this, I am sure the telemetry will tell more than that. Will FIA become MIA?

[JonoNic]

I'm fairly certain the start will be reinvestigated.... Ferrari can smell victory.

You might be right. A Bottas penalty would keep him ahead of Ric and Hamilton meaning more points lead for Vettel. The gloves are truly off.

[LionKing]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9hUuOV ... e=youtu.be

Can Ferrari appeal?

Seems like a jump start to me

Wowzer! I am surprised they missed this during the race. If a normal YT video can show this, I am sure the telemetry will tell more than that. Will FIA become MIA?

Maybe Bottas's Finnish buddy Mika Salo, the steward had something to do with it

[DarkSurferZA]

I am just making assumptions, because I don't know the facts here, but I assume the data used in the Stewards investigation could have come from the time the start button was pushed not the time the lights changed. There is obvious electrical lag in any system as electrons need to move from one point to another.

As I understand it though, drivers must react to the lights as they signal the start of the race. They obviously can't see Charlie's hand in the start box

Sent from my SM-T815 using Tapatalk

[fiohaa]

I'm fairly certain the start will be reinvestigated.... Ferrari can smell victory.

You might be right. A Bottas penalty would keep him ahead of Ric and Hamilton meaning more points lead for Vettel. The gloves are truly off.

Wishful thinking. There's no way they will investigate post race, given the Baku talks and suggestions of bias towards Ferrari.
But outside from all that I think it's an interesting question to clarify.

That YouTube link that will now start doing the rounds has been doctored lol, because when Davidson showed it frame by frame on the skypad it was clear the wheels started turning after.

The more interesting question is the one I've posed above.

[matt_b]

They already said no further action in the race. If they issued a 5 second penalty in the race mercedes would've pitted Bottas earlier when he had his 8 second lead on Seb and not let it drop down to 2 seconds before pitting late. The result wont change.