2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

[f1jcw]

This sounds a lot like last year's Spanish GP upgrades, which didn't really thrust them into serious contention either because the other teams had upgrades of their own.

Seems a bit strage if it didn't convince in the wind tunnel why they developed it

You're asking a chicken and the egg question. The car has to be developed and found to "not be convincing" in order for them to change course. They are not oracles. They don't know it's not going to work.

So, it didn't convince in the wind tunnel but decided to continue to develop to see if would work in the real world.
But then last year, it convinced in the wind tunnel but not in the real world.

[Venturiation]

[Piergiuseppe Donadoni] The current W14, which didn't convince in the wind tunnel, is a transition specification between the zeropods concept (W13) and what the real W14 will be after the update packages of the first part of the season. From then on, Mercedes believes they can win races.

This sounds a lot like last year's Spanish GP upgrades, which didn't really thrust them into serious contention either because the other teams had upgrades of their own.

Seems a bit strage if it didn't convince in the wind tunnel why they developed it

the launch W14 might be an old spec that was made just before winter , and the spec b might have been developed during the winter, wich takes alot of time

[f1jcw]

This sounds a lot like last year's Spanish GP upgrades, which didn't really thrust them into serious contention either because the other teams had upgrades of their own.

Seems a bit strage if it didn't convince in the wind tunnel why they developed it

the launch W14 might be an old spec that was made just before winter , and the spec b might have been developed during the winter, wich takes alot of time

You might be right, you might be not.

But if you are right, Merc getting too clever again.

[Venturiation]

Seems a bit strage if it didn't convince in the wind tunnel why they developed it

the launch W14 might be an old spec that was made just before winter , and the spec b might have been developed during the winter, wich takes alot of time

You might be right, you might be not.

But if you are right, Merc getting too clever again.

why too clever?

[DGP123]

Possible. The China cancellation also buys them time, but it all seems very far fetched. Even if the B spec is great, it probably only gets them on a par or slightly behind the RB, who would be probably 100+ pts down the road by then, and would be bringing another upgrade themselves for the European phase.

They should have binned this zero side pod turd during mid season last year, but they persevered, and it’s likely going to cost them another season. Thoroughly depressing.

[chrisc90]

It still baffles me that they claimed they knew of the underlying issues with the car mid-late 2022 season, so they had the remaining season AND winter to work on those. But now theres reports that the underlying issues are still there, or there are new problems with the changes there has been.

It doesnt make sense to bring a different design/concept or changes from over the winter if they knew how to fully resolve the issues they had with the W13.

Either they took a guess at the problems of the W13 and the were wrong, or they dont fully understand the concept yet. Its hard to know what's going on without knowing the specifics or the inside information Merc have.

If the side pods arent the be all and end all of design and the issues they have, then the problem is more fundamental and deeper down.

[chrisc90]

Just seen this pic from the race on Facebook.




I really ant get over the high bulge on the engine cover, it just looks so wrong and unproportioned

[Vanja #66]

If the side pods arent the be all and end all of design and the issues they have, then the problem is more fundamental and deeper down.

Sidepods provide crucial flow conditioning for floor with these cars. Floor performance is crucial.

Making a big mistake with sidepods won't cause underlying bouncing issue, but it may exaggerate it. Making a good sidepod design with proper floor edge interaction may actually help with bouncing and allow even more performance to be extracted.

Its not a fan fiction and never was, its confirmed and verified during the 2022 season. I don't have a clue why Wolff and Merc are downplaying sidepod design and importance, but if they aren't faking it then they have a big and critical lack of understanding of this generation of cars.

[Spoutnik]

It's very worying that the car is still very draggy/the engine is nowhere. It's incredible to lost the engine advantage so much
Brazil 2021 seems very far...

[De Jokke]

The poaching by other teams has hit them hard. I wonder when Toto will start shopping (for now they are to proud to keep it all inhouse)...

[chrisc90]

The poaching by other teams has hit them hard. I wonder when Toto will start shopping (for now they are to proud to keep it all inhouse)...

Has Mercedes brought any talent in to replace the 'big guns' that have left to go to other teams?

[Spoutnik]

The poaching by other teams has hit them hard. I wonder when Toto will start shopping (for now they are to proud to keep it all inhouse)...

Wonder when RB will suffer from the same thing, Dan Fallows departure for example.
I don't know what to think about this year, cause the car was not so far off the pace on long runs

[AR3-GP]

Just seen this pic from the race on Facebook.

https://scontent-otp1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/ ... e=640038CC


I really ant get over the high bulge on the engine cover, it just looks so wrong and unproportioned

This is not bad looking.

[Big Tea]

The poaching by other teams has hit them hard. I wonder when Toto will start shopping (for now they are to proud to keep it all inhouse)...

Has Mercedes brought any talent in to replace the 'big guns' that have left to go to other teams?

It is not just the talent lost to other teams from Merc, it is the talent gained by other teams at the expense of Merc.
It is cutting off both ends of the stick.

[JordanMugen]

Its not a fan fiction and never was, its confirmed and verified during the 2022 season. I don't have a clue why Wolff and Merc are downplaying sidepod design and importance, but if they aren't faking it then they have a big and critical lack of understanding of this generation of cars.

I'm sure Mike Elliot understands it well. They would have done what they needed to do to add as much performance (or "performant attributes" as Elliot likes to say) to the car as possible!

Why do you need a transition spec if you already know it's a dud?
Must be very complex then

Because you need to lock in something to manufacture to have a car to test with, even if you have moved on to fiddling with something else on the computer screen. But I don't believe such a rumour. Mercedes would not make the mistake of taking an unrepresentative car to the first (and now only) test again.

If they don't deliver yet again this year, I think it is time for Tim Elliot to go. They can't risk getting in this trend and risk 2026 similarly.

Geeze, you can't win every year!

Why don't Mercedes just build a faster car?

Because they started off 2022 with the idea that running a car low and hard would be possible, and seemingly failed to include measures to mitigate porpoising in the design of the car (nor design a car that generates good downforce at higher ride heights or which had a compliant ride). So they were behind in that way, but the old car was still pretty fast and took a pole and a win!

The car definitely has a lot of potential!

Plus by all reports, the Mercedes has a pretty good ride quality in Bahrain testing 2023. So the new suspensions (increased travel at the rear?) seem to be doing the trick!