Strange going-ons at Red Bull

[FW17]

Webber is off his high horse.

http://www.forumula1.net/2010/f1/f1-new ... climbdown/

Looks like being stupid can be used as a legitimate excuse.......

WB can you explain the latest revelations from the so called senior redbull engineer amidst talk of keeping talk within the team? Seems rather contradictory to me.

What will be the perception of MW if the engineer is Adrian Newey?

Pls do not speculate on imaginary divisions in RBR team.... no management will put up with it however gullible they may be.

Then why are Red Bull's management still briefing against one of their drivers even after the 'clear the air' talks: http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2010/07/m ... -red-bull/

Marko as a RBR consultant is asking the OZ to be a least bit grateful for the achievements of the team, which i don’t see anything wrong.

[myurr]

Pls do not speculate on imaginary divisions in RBR team.... no management will put up with it however gullible they may be.

Then why are Red Bull's management still briefing against one of their drivers even after the 'clear the air' talks: http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2010/07/m ... -red-bull/

Marko as a RBR consultant is asking the OZ to be a least bit grateful for the achievements of the team, which i don’t see anything wrong.[/quote]

You might be able to read it that way, but to me it came across more as saying that without the amazing car that the team was providing him Webber would be nothing - that it is the car that is winning races not the driver so he should shut up and accept the will of the team. You can spin Marko as being just a consultant, but it is widely reported by multiple sources that he is in effect calling the shots within the team.

This is how James Allen sums up the piece:

After calming words from Red Bull team principal Christian Horner to attempt to end the row over preferential treatment between drivers, Red Bull adviser Helmut Marko has weighed in today, saying that Webber needs to remember that he was no-where before Red Bull gave him a competitive car.

So after Horner tried to calm the situation, Marko was 'weighed in' with critical comments (implying that these comments will not be calming). Marko, with no hint of irony, even claims that the broken wing in Silverstone shows the team does not favour Vettel even though this failure on his car ultimately led to the part being taken from one car to the other.

He says that Mark is having a good season and has improved, but then claims that much of this improvement is actually the car not the driver asking where he was two years ago.

The entire statement reads with a single purpose behind it - to tell Mark to shut up and just accept the way the team treat him. I for one hope that he continues to speak out should the team try and disadvantage him and really hope that for whatever reason there is need for the team to disadvantage Vettel to benefit Webber in Germany. I'm going to enjoy the excuses for not doing so (what are the odds on it being "but it's Seb's home race!").

[WhiteBlue]

Again it leaks out that Marko called the shots in the RB wing row when Horner claimed that the decision was 100% his.

This is a 100% myurr made up statement. I have not seen one single word from Horner, Marko or Mateschitz contradicting the story that Horner made the wing decision the way he said. Where is the evidence for this accusation? This is the full wording of what Marko said three days after Silverstone.

If Mark imagines there’s a conspiracy between us and Vettel against him, then he is on the wrong track. If I was Vettel then I would have suspected the opposite. Which car has permanently had something damaged? Did Mark have the defective spark plug in Bahrain, the loose wheel in Australia, the broken brake disc in Barcelona, the defective chassis in Monte Carlo, the transmission problems in Montreal and now the broken wing at Silverstone? Mark in comparison has got off lightly. Mark is having a great season, and has also improved big time, but he should not forget that he owes much of this to the team. Where was he two years ago? Then he could not even dream of grand prix victories. Today, we have given him a car that he can win on his own. We really don't care who becomes world champion as long as he sits in a Red Bull.

This is all very reasonable. All that Marko does in his statement is showing the other side that is frequently neglected by the english spoken press. Webber indeed was lucky compared to Vettel in terms of reliability. And Webber would still be far away from winning a championship if the Red Bull were not the dominant car. So IMO some team members can be rightly aggrieved that Webber creates unnecessary public confrontations which damage the good work they do.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Myurr

I see this exactly as you do. If there is no problem, why is there this incessant need to let everyone know nothings wrong?
I cannot see how Webber should "act with grace" when his team dont. What Webber is doing is purging the team of its BS, and is doing an absolute magnificent job of it.

His statement where he mentions "going to far" was of course after a dressing down from the RB. Had he not been a nice bloke and gone along with it, we could have ended up with an Alonso/Mclaren stand off as in 2007 where an FIA delegate be appointed to ensure equal treatment. What the delegate would have made of Silverstone's histrionics by RB is anyones guess.

Keep doing what your doing mark =D>

[gibells]

Yeah I'd say. Always being one to back the 'dog, I find the histrionics in the team have led me to be quite chuffed when Mark whines, I mean wins.

Are we all sure Red Bull's PR machine isn't achieving exactly what they want, that is, getting us to talk about RED BULL.

[marcush.]

I´m pretty sure that this happenings are not orchestrated but a reult of people pulling strings purely ego driven and Horner is frantically trying to convince the public everything is ok in REDBULL.
but who knows ..complete dossiers have been reproduced in copyshops and sent via email to competitors and the other team has worked with that information as if it were normal ...and driver A had no issues with blackmailing is boss to get his ways in the team..so anything is possible we can think of ..and as you can think of things it is happening already ...

[djos]

MW has not surprised RBR with his performance this year, it is similar to last year the reason for the mess is SV has been unlucky in 2 races at the begining of the year where he should have won.


RBR also did not expect MW to be PR disaster that he has been over the last few weeks

Strewth, Bitter much?

You are the kind of fan Williams F1 could do without! I bet you were blaming MW for his Williams F1 cars constantly disintegrating when fast or just being plain slow despite the obvious fact that he was easily outperforming his team mates while he was there! The only reason Vettel comprehensively beat him last year was due to Mark still recovering from a badly broken leg, broken rib and broken shoulder!

Perhaps you should Read Sir Franks admission that he underestimated Mark and letting him go was a mistake!

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Gibells,

I think that Red Bull are aware the longer this rumbles on, the better exposure for the brand.....as they say "even bad news is good news".

Djos
+1

Marcush
Red Bull in F1 is entirely a PR excercise. For Mercedes Ferrari etc, There is a direct link to their brand. So they could apply what they have learned into what they do to earn a crust(living).

Red Bull or not even on the same page. Their very existence is to add value to a drink. As such, any and all publicity is good, especially if they look to garnish their bad boy image. How they can apply what they learn in F1 is limited solely to Marketing and PR, until the day arrives that we can all buy a Red Bull car.

As that is when they stop being a caricature.

As Gibells alluded to, we really should not be surprised that Red Bull are hogging the headlines. Its what they are designed to do IMO

[BreezyRacer]

Actually when it comes to F1, I think the Red Bull tack of using it to promote it's brand is the very smartest way to enter F1. The Red bull name is everywhere and you cannot even ID the car without saying "Red Bull". In every radio and TV show it's Red Bull, Red Bull, Red Bull .. lap after lap. It's a marketing victory of epic proportions, and marketing is what pays the bills for every team. When you look at a McLaren do you say "there's a Vodophone" .. not even close. And F1 is the right environment for a Red Bull type of product.

In the future there will be more of this kind of action and it will be good for f1 and the fans too.

[autogyro]

Yep, just blow some CO2 into some water and give it a name.
Jesus what a boring shallow century.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Breezy

Do you not think that it detracts somewhat from the purist nature of F1 as a sport?
Yes lesser teams do the same and there is no rule written that a Mclaren Ferrari Mercedes or Renault should win(Ferrari in the early to mid 2000's excluded )

I think with Red Bull its a very concerted effort to take the automotive aspect out, and engulf it with 200 mph bargeboard philosophy.
Some will rightly say that Mercedes Ferrari etc do the same, but at least they have a link right?

[Richard]

Yep, just blow some CO2 into some water and give it a name.

No different to the various health drinks/tinctures sold in the 20C and 19C. That's how Coca Cola started, and it is also the origin of gin.

As for the JPS & Marlboro sponsorship of F1 .... Just wrap some leaves in paper, what a shallow century?

[FW17]

MW has not surprised RBR with his performance this year, it is similar to last year the reason for the mess is SV has been unlucky in 2 races at the begining of the year where he should have won.


RBR also did not expect MW to be PR disaster that he has been over the last few weeks

Strewth, Bitter much?

You are the kind of fan Williams F1 could do without! I bet you were blaming MW for his Williams F1 cars constantly disintegrating when fast or just being plain slow despite the obvious fact that he was easily outperforming his team mates while he was there! The only reason Vettel comprehensively beat him last year was due to Mark still recovering from a badly broken leg, broken rib and broken shoulder!

Perhaps you should Read Sir Franks admission that he underestimated Mark and letting him go was a mistake!

And why is that Williams can do without a fan like me???

[djos]

MW has not surprised RBR with his performance this year, it is similar to last year the reason for the mess is SV has been unlucky in 2 races at the begining of the year where he should have won.


RBR also did not expect MW to be PR disaster that he has been over the last few weeks

Strewth, Bitter much?

You are the kind of fan Williams F1 could do without! I bet you were blaming MW for his Williams F1 cars constantly disintegrating when fast or just being plain slow despite the obvious fact that he was easily outperforming his team mates while he was there! The only reason Vettel comprehensively beat him last year was due to Mark still recovering from a badly broken leg, broken rib and broken shoulder!

Perhaps you should Read Sir Franks admission that he underestimated Mark and letting him go was a mistake!

And why is that Williams can do without a fan like me???

[myurr]

Again it leaks out that Marko called the shots in the RB wing row when Horner claimed that the decision was 100% his.

This is a 100% myurr made up statement. I have not seen one single word from Horner, Marko or Mateschitz contradicting the story that Horner made the wing decision the way he said. Where is the evidence for this accusation? This is the full wording of what Marko said three days after Silverstone.

If Mark imagines there’s a conspiracy between us and Vettel against him, then he is on the wrong track. If I was Vettel then I would have suspected the opposite. Which car has permanently had something damaged? Did Mark have the defective spark plug in Bahrain, the loose wheel in Australia, the broken brake disc in Barcelona, the defective chassis in Monte Carlo, the transmission problems in Montreal and now the broken wing at Silverstone? Mark in comparison has got off lightly. Mark is having a great season, and has also improved big time, but he should not forget that he owes much of this to the team. Where was he two years ago? Then he could not even dream of grand prix victories. Today, we have given him a car that he can win on his own. We really don't care who becomes world champion as long as he sits in a Red Bull.

This is all very reasonable. All that Marko does in his statement is showing the other side that is frequently neglected by the english spoken press. Webber indeed was lucky compared to Vettel in terms of reliability. And Webber would still be far away from winning a championship if the Red Bull were not the dominant car. So IMO some team members can be rightly aggrieved that Webber creates unnecessary public confrontations which damage the good work they do.

I did not make up that statement at all and hopefully you will retract your accusation. It's either been made up by Joe Saward, who has proven to be pretty reliable and insightful in the past, or leaked from the team. Url as follows: http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2010/07/ ... ll-racing/

And Marko's statement is not reasonable in the slightest. What he is basically saying is that Red Bull are the king maker and that Webber should just tow the company line. At least Horner has the grace to say that now Webber is leading the championship he will get any preferential treatment.

Let us not forget that it was Marko who started the public statements when he briefed the media against Webber in Turkey. This is something that you have still not addressed despite repeated claims that Webber is creating unnecessary public confrontations. Marko's latest statement is yet another example of the contrast - whereas Webber is making statements aimed at clearing the air and diffusing the situation, Marko is making antagonistic proclamations.