2013 Spanish Grand Prix - Barcelona

[henra]

You (and also certain fans here) should understand that is not Pirelli that should adapt to RB, but RB that should adapt to Pirelli. i.e. is not the problem that should adapt to RB, but RB to the problem.

You simply don't get the Point.
This is not about RB.Maybe for you. (Ask yourself: Will your Position re tyres stay the same if RB somehow unlocks the mystery of the tyres and starts profiting from it?)

But not for most of the Posters I read here. They want Sports and not just Soap Opera. Read their Posts properly and I'm sure you will notice it.
Even supporters of Teams which are profiting from the situation are distinctly unhappy with the way the tyres destroy racing.

[Neno]

You (and also certain fans here) should understand that is not Pirelli that should adapt to RB, but RB that should adapt to Pirelli. i.e. is not the problem that should adapt to RB, but RB to the problem.

You simply don't get the Point.
This is not about RB.Maybe for you. (Ask yourself: Will your Position re tyres stay the same if RB somehow unlocks the mystery of the tyres and starts profiting from it?)

But not for most of the Posters I read here. They want Sports and not just Soap Opera. Read their Posts properly and I'm sure you will notice it.
Even supporters of Teams which are profiting from the situation are distinctly unhappy with the way the tyres destroy racing.

Long time ago F1 stoped be a sport and become show, or you calling it soap opera. From 2009 when FIA made ridicoulus championship,haved inconsistant rules and created racing in show, both with KERS that year, later with pirelli tires. Long time ago racing is not real racing anymore not even 2010, 2011 or 2012. So why would this need to be changed in 2013? If you didnt adapt on it yet, well i have *hity news for you. You just need to wait one year, just ONE, and maybe you will see some real racing. But i dont be belive. If this affect you this much, you have torrents and download your favorite f1 era and sure please have a box a tissues you will be so excited you might "if u know what i mean".

[Pierce89]

If you think that the first two stints were done at 90% that Ferrari must be a real beast and not showing of the real potential.
IMO Alonso in the first 2 stints was pushing really hard to make that strategy of 4 stops work.

Comparing his laptimes with the qualifying laptimes might be enlightening.
In his best laps he was about 6-7s slower than in Quali.
Do you really feel that is 100% of the performance the car could achieve??? Is that a beast in your view?
For me the laptimes during the race cormpared to quali are solid proof that noone, read not a single one of the drivers was driving at the ultimate limit of their cars.
If that is good racing for you more power to you.
For me I have to say: No thanks.

Go look at 2010. The first laps were just as far from the quali times. How's that for enlightenment? Its funny how the shittellis were fine with everyone till Ferrari started winning. If that's not the case, show me a post where you were complaining in 2011.

[Redragon]

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[Redragon]

Comparing his laptimes with the qualifying laptimes might be enlightening.
In his best laps he was about 6-7s slower than in Quali.
Do you really feel that is 100% of the performance the car could achieve??? Is that a beast in your view?
For me the laptimes during the race cormpared to quali are solid proof that noone, read not a single one of the drivers was driving at the ultimate limit of their cars.
If that is good racing for you more power to you.
For me I have to say: No thanks.

Go look at 2010. The first laps were just as far from the quali times. How's that for enlightenment? Its funny how the shittellis were fine with everyone till Ferrari started winning. If that's not the case, show me a post where you were complaining in 2011.

I don't think you can't analize what it is the 100%, 90%, etc... if you don't have the data. As many things enter in play, tyres, fuel wheight, fuel saving, brakes, heating, etc... So I only base my opinion for what I see. And to my eyes Alonso was pushing hard in the first two stints to make work his 4 stints strategy. The one who turn out it was the right and the one Redbull try to commit to late on the race. IMO, it is not a problem of the tyres it is a problem of strategy.

You didn't understand about my sarcasm on "Ferrari is a beast".
You should read again my comment. I was saying that Alonso probably was playing with opponents mind, once the race is over. It is called psychology. Imagine what Vettel must be thinking about that Ferrari, when Alonso who started on P5, finished P1 with 4 pits, one more than him, and overall 40s over Vettel time. All of that driving just at 90% of the possibilities of that car. So if he really was driving a 90%, something I don't buy it, the Ferrari would be a beast.

I would like to know what would be the porcentage that Redbull would be driving if they were going for 4 stops from the beggining, they don't talk about that data. Also where is Newey to answer or say about all this technical stuff. He was in most of the interviews and representing Redbull on the last few races of last year. Where is he now? It is strange that just Horner, Marko and Vettel are talking.

I am not an expert and engenier but I got a feeling that Redbull doesn't have problem with the wear of the 2013 tyres. What they have problem is with the new structure they are built off. If I recall well in the last two years there were comments about the high presure Redbull were capable to apply on the tyres but the new structure on this tyres as Gary explains on this article http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/22505695 could be the reason why they can't apply that high presure as they use to because the carcass can wear off and they are loosing that advantage they used to have. That's why they want to revert to 2012 tyres. I hope that Pirelli don't change the structure just the wear to make them last longer.

I don't know if the last 7 lines make sense but I through the especulation. Please bear in mind that I am really green on the area.

[Nomore]

You (and also certain fans here) should understand that is not Pirelli that should adapt to RB, but RB that should adapt to Pirelli. i.e. is not the problem that should adapt to RB, but RB to the problem.

You simply don't get the Point.
This is not about RB.Maybe for you. (Ask yourself: Will your Position re tyres stay the same if RB somehow unlocks the mystery of the tyres and starts profiting from it?)

But not for most of the Posters I read here. They want Sports and not just Soap Opera. Read their Posts properly and I'm sure you will notice it.
Even supporters of Teams which are profiting from the situation are distinctly unhappy with the way the tyres destroy racing.

Oh yes it’s all about Red Bull, and it’s not just me who says this but also Paul Hembrey (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/107415) so if you don’t agree with that then contact him for an extra explanations. I must repeat it’s Hembrey, senior responsible for Pirelli in F1…

If the position on tires is the same (3,4 stops) and RB wins, I will compliment with them and yes 100% sure I will not change my position.

About the Soap Opera:

1. If you say that Pirelli tires are destroying racing form 2013, than is a fan biased point of view.
2. If you are saying that Pirelli is destroying racing from 2011 then is a different thing and in a certain extension I agree. But we must admit that also 2011, 2012 are fake … if we agree on this then its ok.

About the supporter of teams…look there is a trick, an easy trick …I can come here and say:

I’m a die-hard RB and Vettel fan but I disagree with how my team is facing the problem. We should not whine and cry… but work hard accept the problem and turn it on our profit. We should respect opponents and their works, if we lose then congratulates them and stops crying.

And here you have it a RB fan that is distinctly unhappy with how the team faces the problem.

About the real racing.

If you are able to give me logical and documented answer (but pls not opinions) to why for you:

Barcelona 2011 (4 stops) is real racing
Barcelona 2013 (4 stops) is not real racing

Then I will accept that this is not real racing.

P.S notice that is also acceptable answers like: 2011 is real racing because Vettel won, and 2013 is not real racing because Alonso won! Having a fan biased point of view is not wrong…we just have to make it clear first.

[Nomore]

Incredible every F1 site or even every F1 journalist is talking about tires...tires..tires...

Bravo RB, =D> congrat your media powerful and the method to dis-inform the public opinion is incredible. Now i understand why all that Red Bull publicity is everywhere...and also Eccleston is giving a big go on this.

2 days have past and no one yet has published an article about how Red Bull got destroyed and humiliated by Ferrari (and Lotus) in a Circuit that is called the "temple of aerodynamic downforce"...and they keep saying that we have more downforce than everyone and still finish +40 sec form the race leader in Barcelona in normal conditions .

It's just a matter of time when Newey and company will make us believe that they can travel much faster than the speed of light but just the tires didn't work...

[enz0]

Incredible every F1 site or even every F1 journalist is talking about tires...tires..tires...

Bravo RB, =D> congrat your media powerful and the method to dis-inform the public opinion is incredible. Now i understand why all that Red Bull publicity is everywhere...and also Eccleston is giving a big go on this.

2 days have past and no one yet has published an article about how Red Bull got destroyed and humiliated by Ferrari (and Lotus) in a Circuit that is called the "temple of aerodynamic downforce"...and they keep saying that we have more downforce than everyone and still finish +40 sec form the race leader in Barcelona in normal conditions .

It's just a matter of time when Newey and company will make us believe that they can travel much faster than the speed of light but just the tires didn't work...

+1000000000 Definitely agree with this post, just because some teams got a better understanding of the Pirelli's and RB didn't doesn't mean that there's something wrong with the tires. As part of the development/ run up to the 2013 season, the teams should be able to develop their cars around the rules and the tires. They should be able to make their cars work on the tires provided, not make their car work on tires they want, Ferrari, Red Bull and Lotus got the same tires, so I would say RB just didn't get it right. Besides it seems like if vettel won there's nothing wrong with the tires, but now that the Bull was of the race pace, then there's something wrong. Some say that how come Red Bull was flying in Bahrain but not here, I can think of two reasons why: 1. Everyone had updates, yes, red bull also had updates, but what's not to say that Ferrari and Lotus's updates worked better in trying to control tire wear and get better race pace. 2. Tires, Ironically I think the tires red bull were whining for didn't work for them, I still remember Pirelli actually modified the tire closer to 2012 spec tire, thanks to red bulls Whining, Pirelli changed the hards, but red bull were unable to make them work, so what will red bull do? Say the tires are cr*p and ask for another change, don't we think that red bull should perhaps replace Pirelli in making tires because they seem to know way better. And besides red bull seem to be whining way more than others even worse than mercedes for me, and those clearly have excessive wear. Just my thoughts Peace

[strad]

If you think that the first two stints were done at 90% that Ferrari must be a real beast and not showing of the real potential.
IMO Alonso in the first 2 stints was pushing really hard to make that strategy of 4 stops work.

Comparing his laptimes with the qualifying laptimes might be enlightening.
In his best laps he was about 6-7s slower than in Quali.
Do you really feel that is 100% of the performance the car could achieve??? Is that a beast in your view?
For me the laptimes during the race compared to quali are solid proof that noone, read not a single one of the drivers was driving at the ultimate limit of their cars.
If that is good racing for you more power to you.
For me I have to say: No thanks.

+1...It's not the times themselves though..It's all contained in the quote.."I can't drive any slower"...Now that's not racing!

[Redragon]

For those saying that Alonso was driving 90%. On spanish press he said that he raced the 4 stints as if they were 4 qualifyings

http://motor.as.com/motor/2013/05/12/fo ... 56529.html

Also Hembery is not saying that they are doing this type of tyres not to benefit Redbull as some are saying here,
what he is saying is the only one complaining is Redbull and they can do the change but will only benefit one team, Redbull
He is finding too a bit suspicious that 2 years ago wasn't a problem but now it is a problem.

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/news/form ... 56987.html

All of this it is more and more a smoke to cover the problems at Redbull, no showing respect when others teams are wining by own merits

[nipo]

Personally I think the tyres are really a bit extreme this year.

Numerous drivers have voiced out that now the race is all about nursing tyres and you can't really put up a fight without screwing up your strategy. Jenson said you're driving 8 or 8.5 tenths most of the time and it is difficult to race each other. In the past of course the strategy also is a concern but you have perhaps a little bit more room (or a hell lot of room in the Michelin days, which I think was silly) to choose to fight a bit more depending on the situation of the race. Now you look at Nico he has to drop off from pole because pushing to maintain the lead is "not sensible"... I mean WTF!!??

It's correct to say the teams are given equal tyres and it is still a fair competition. But you cannot use that to justify that the 2013 tyres have no problems. I can perhaps supply F1 with wooden tyres and it will still be a fair competition - would you still call that OK?

In terms of spectacle I think last year was just about right with the tyres lasting just reasonably long enough for a majority of drivers to fight, but will fall off once they burnt out and significantly slow the car down. I'm guessing, from Hembrey's statements, that 4 stops (and hence the fall-off rate) was not what Pirelli was looking for when developing this year's tyres, and I think it is correct that they want to do something to make it less extreme - and soon.

[Philledan]

I didn't say that the tires are a small factor i said that they are the same for everyone and who loses should not complain but accept the situation.

The radio communication were also in 2011 and 2012 about...dive careful, save tires, be careful at x turn, we have to do 15 laps with this....etc The main difference with this year is that : a Team (guess who) and a driver (guess who) ... that in every single interview, he complains from A to Z about tires. We will see the next interview, he gives a interview every single week in the official F1 page...

It wasn't Mr. Vettel who let Mr. Raikkonen pass, but it was Mr. Raikkonen who overtook him fair and square. Vettel did everything to stop him and nearly crash but in the end Raikkonen got him.

you must have been watching a different race. I clearly heard his engineer say "not too put up too much of a fight". And im sorry for your disability to analyse moving pictures; but Vettel did not defend at all against Kimi, which i dont mind being a Kimi fan. However it would have been nicer (for all the fans of the sport) to see them fight for position, instead of handing them out on silver platters!

'i can not drive any slower'--this was in the race, but you probably missed the interview with Hamilton post race when he said we have to go back to drawing board and make drastic change. He was blaming the car not the tires.

to go back to the drawing board means they have to rethink/brainstorm what is causing this issue; it does not mean by default, that there is anything fundamentally wrong with the car --> you must have read the articles by now by Toto Wolf and others stating that it is not the car, but has something to do with how the tires are prepared

I guess your favorite team or driver did not win yesterday... for me it was a great day of motor racing i enjoyed the race like in Bahrain and China and also in 2011 and 2012.

that is correct. However, my favorite driver doesnt need to win or even be on the podium for me to witness good racing, as in a competive field where drivers actually battle for position, and battle themselves against delta-times...

[SaveMeHollywood]

I think it's definitely an issue with the tyres. Jenson Button had quite a bit to say about it all:

"It is a right mess. The problem is that a lot of people watching will think there's a lot of overtaking [so] it's great, isn't it?" he said. "But when we're going round doing laps three seconds slower than a GP2 car did in qualifying, and only six seconds quicker than a GP3 car did in the race, there's something wrong. This is the pinnacle of motor sport.

"We shouldn't be driving round as slow as we have to to look after the tyres. It's so complicated. It is very confusing. The whole time the engineer is on the radio saying: 'The temperatures are too high or too low, you've got to go quicker in this corner, you have to go slower in this corner, to look after this tyre.'

"When I see a car behind I let it past because I'm doing a different strategy and I don't want to damage my tyres. If I block I might destroy my tyres. It's the same thing we had in China, waving each other past so we don't destroy our rubber while hoping that the guy who's overtaking will."

Source: http://www.planetf1.com/driver/3373/871 ... -and-round

Oh and check out the odd type of wear on Perez's tyres at the end of the race:


Now is that a Right Mess or what?

[motobaleno]

imho most of you completely miss the real reason why present races are by far better than past years:
it's not a matter of overtakings: overtakings are only a consequence. the real reason is that the GAPS during the race can vary!
Processional races were not only racers without overtaking but most of all were races where the cars in the circuit were invariably ordered in terms of their fixed performances so BEFORE the race you already knew what was going to happen.
it was really really rare that for instance the driver in 4 position was faster than the 3 or the 2 and so on, so you didn't have thrill. what you have now that you hadn' t in the past is THAT THINGS CAN CHANGE! that's a lot more than simply overtakings...in the past things could change only if there was rain, safety cars, accidents...

[Jonnycraig]

imho most of you completely miss the real reason why present races are by far better than past years:
it's not a matter of overtakings: overtakings are only a consequence. the real reason is that the GAPS during the race can vary!
Processional races were not only racers without overtaking but most of all were races where the cars in the circuit were invariably ordered in terms of their fixed performances so BEFORE the race you already knew what was going to happen.
it was really really rare that for instance the driver in 4 position was faster than the 3 or the 2 and so on, so you didn't have thrill. what you have now that you hadn' t in the past is THAT THINGS CAN CHANGE! that's a lot more than simply overtakings...in the past things could change only if there was rain, safety cars, accidents...

What you have now is the fastest teams sacrificing qualifying position in favour of tyre life in race stints. You then get these cars easing themselves into their correct positions in the first stint before settling into a 50+ lap cruise.