2016 German Grand Prix - Hockenheim, 29-31 July

[WaikeCU]

Ricciardo attempted a similar move on Vettel back in Spain, but Vettel saw it coming and didn't hug his car on the outside. Contact would be inevitable if he did. Ricciardo was on the edge of a penalty right there.



Reason why Rosberg got the penalty is most likely because he already has a history (ie. Barcelona, Austria), but onboard footage has shown that he didn't make any attempt in turning, so that's obvious how he got penalised. Also, I noticed how Verstappen swerved under braking just like other drivers have complained about him. It could have gone different, had Verstapped come back under Rosberg on the inside off corner, in which he didn't. If he did, nothing would have happened and Rosberg would probably missed the corner and still be behind Verstappen.


Above, an example how Lewis dodged Schumacher and drove off him on the inside off corner. If Lewis hugged it on the outside, Schumacher might be getting a penalty as well.

--------

Conclusion is that Rosberg being investigated was a valid point and a penalty was rightly awarded.

[GrandAxe]

Max is another guy that has it coming, but he still in his honeymoon period with the stewards. The "circus" aspect of F1 is in love with "the teenager", an appellation that evokes child prodigy. Max will be straightened pretty sharply as soon as that love wears out.
The love affair will either last until next season, or the gods of F1 will wait until he is twenty and can no longer be called "the teenager"... Then, BOOM!

That said, Max is really talented, so there is a huge chance he'll straighten out on his own.

Just because some arm chair experts here believe he was wrong, doesn't mean he is wrong. For as long as Stewards continue to believe he has made no mistake, then it is OK. Same stewards have penalized Nico, so that says it wasn't Max's fault.
Rightly so....
Verstappen: Complaints won't make me stop racing hard

What I'm saying is that Max has it coming, not that he was wrong in Rosberg's red mist moment. It is more with his very risky tactics, for example, his off track, near miss pass on Ricciardo at the start. At some point, it is all going crash down on his young shoulders with the weight of an elephant.

[Jolle]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvzq9T3rFYI

Ricciardo attempted a similar move on Vettel back in Spain, but Vettel saw it coming and didn't hug his car on the outside. Contact would be inevitable if he did. Ricciardo was on the edge of a penalty right there.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FKwWhwOxd0

Reason why Rosberg got the penalty is most likely because he already has a history (ie. Barcelona, Austria), but onboard footage has shown that he didn't make any attempt in turning, so that's obvious how he got penalised. Also, I noticed how Verstappen swerved under braking just like other drivers have complained about him. It could have gone different, had Verstapped come back under Rosberg on the inside off corner, in which he didn't. If he did, nothing would have happened and Rosberg would probably missed the corner and still be behind Verstappen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11xnHP446zw
Above, an example how Lewis dodged Schumacher and drove off him on the inside off corner. If Lewis hugged it on the outside, Schumacher might be getting a penalty as well.

--------

Conclusion is that Rosberg being investigated was a valid point and a penalty was rightly awarded.

I fail to see where Vettel or Hamilton is pushed off the track, Ricciardo is even making the apex (couldn't see if Schumacher did)

[Jolle]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvzq9T3rFYI

Ricciardo attempted a similar move on Vettel back in Spain, but Vettel saw it coming and didn't hug his car on the outside. Contact would be inevitable if he did. Ricciardo was on the edge of a penalty right there.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FKwWhwOxd0

Reason why Rosberg got the penalty is most likely because he already has a history (ie. Barcelona, Austria), but onboard footage has shown that he didn't make any attempt in turning, so that's obvious how he got penalised. Also, I noticed how Verstappen swerved under braking just like other drivers have complained about him. It could have gone different, had Verstapped come back under Rosberg on the inside off corner, in which he didn't. If he did, nothing would have happened and Rosberg would probably missed the corner and still be behind Verstappen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11xnHP446zw
Above, an example how Lewis dodged Schumacher and drove off him on the inside off corner. If Lewis hugged it on the outside, Schumacher might be getting a penalty as well.

--------

Conclusion is that Rosberg being investigated was a valid point and a penalty was rightly awarded.

Looked at the Hamilton-Schumacher attempts now more closely, that is how it should be done! That is what Rosberg should have on repeat all the time. You defend the inside, go to the apex and let the car go wide on the exit. The one on the outside has a choice, run off or fall behind. You can see in the second corner what also could be done, again, you take the apex, go wide and then there is a possibility that he comes on the inside back. Real nice wheel to wheel racing.

Rosberg just drives everybody off the track in the first part of the corner, never even attempting to get near the apex.

[WaikeCU]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvzq9T3rFYI

Ricciardo attempted a similar move on Vettel back in Spain, but Vettel saw it coming and didn't hug his car on the outside. Contact would be inevitable if he did. Ricciardo was on the edge of a penalty right there.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FKwWhwOxd0

Reason why Rosberg got the penalty is most likely because he already has a history (ie. Barcelona, Austria), but onboard footage has shown that he didn't make any attempt in turning, so that's obvious how he got penalised. Also, I noticed how Verstappen swerved under braking just like other drivers have complained about him. It could have gone different, had Verstapped come back under Rosberg on the inside off corner, in which he didn't. If he did, nothing would have happened and Rosberg would probably missed the corner and still be behind Verstappen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11xnHP446zw
Above, an example how Lewis dodged Schumacher and drove off him on the inside off corner. If Lewis hugged it on the outside, Schumacher might be getting a penalty as well.

--------

Conclusion is that Rosberg being investigated was a valid point and a penalty was rightly awarded.

I fail to see where Vettel or Hamilton is pushed off the track, Ricciardo is even making the apex (couldn't see if Schumacher did)

Yes, Ricciardo made the apex, but he didn't make the corner, because he carried too much speed and ran wide.

[Jolle]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvzq9T3rFYI

Ricciardo attempted a similar move on Vettel back in Spain, but Vettel saw it coming and didn't hug his car on the outside. Contact would be inevitable if he did. Ricciardo was on the edge of a penalty right there.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FKwWhwOxd0

Reason why Rosberg got the penalty is most likely because he already has a history (ie. Barcelona, Austria), but onboard footage has shown that he didn't make any attempt in turning, so that's obvious how he got penalised. Also, I noticed how Verstappen swerved under braking just like other drivers have complained about him. It could have gone different, had Verstapped come back under Rosberg on the inside off corner, in which he didn't. If he did, nothing would have happened and Rosberg would probably missed the corner and still be behind Verstappen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11xnHP446zw
Above, an example how Lewis dodged Schumacher and drove off him on the inside off corner. If Lewis hugged it on the outside, Schumacher might be getting a penalty as well.

--------

Conclusion is that Rosberg being investigated was a valid point and a penalty was rightly awarded.

I fail to see where Vettel or Hamilton is pushed off the track, Ricciardo is even making the apex (couldn't see if Schumacher did)

Yes, Ricciardo made the apex, but he didn't make the corner, because he carried too much speed and ran wide.

He made a bad harsh move but didn't run Vettel off track. Vettel was annoyed that Ricciardo just dived on the inside and ran wide himself, not that he was pushed off or anything.

[GrizzleBoy]

Comparing Riccis move to Ros as a defense for Ros doesn't work.

Ricci blatantly showed intent to make a gusty move and actually try to make the corner. Ricci actually drove through the apex. Rosberg parked sideways so that the other car couldn't

There is no question to Riccis intention.

You can question his decision making, but not whether he was trying to hinder another car from even taking the corner. You watch the video and you see a guy trying to get ahead, while actually taking the corner. While actually moving the car forwards. You can see that he went for a gap. You can see that he got caught out trying to slow down in time and locked up. You can see that he was out of control of the car as he actually went off the track. It was a blatant passing attempt.

With Ros, there are questions all over the shop. He's on "the limit", yet calm as a summer breeze . Hes concerned about making the corner, but doesn't turn even one degree of steering. His brakes are flat to the floor, yet hes slowing down nice and steady without even the hint of a locked wheel. He's so out of control of the car. unable to control it. but "luckily" he gets enough grip to turn at the exact moment when hes blocked off Verstappen. It was a blatant blocking attempt.

There is no comparison here.

Ricci tried something and failed. You can pinpoint all moments of his failure. You can see the effort he was making in the car to make it stick, hopeless as it was. You know 100% Ricciardo did not want to go barrelling off the track in an embarrassing move like that.

Ros on the other hand. You cant see where he was fighting the car to make the corner. You cant see where his braking is on the limit. You cant see where even after the squeeze, he left any space for the other car to rejoin the track. You cant see where he showed that he didn't have the intention of doing exactly what he did

You cant see those things, because they don't exist. Rosberg wasn't fighting to make the corner. He wasn't on the limit of his braking. He did not leave space for the other car to return to the track. He had every intention of blocking Ves.

The stewards agree. Twice now.

[sosic2121]

I fail to see where Vettel or Hamilton is pushed off the track, Ricciardo is even making the apex (couldn't see if Schumacher did)

Yes, Ricciardo made the apex, but he didn't make the corner, because he carried too much speed and ran wide.

He made a bad harsh move but didn't run Vettel off track. Vettel was annoyed that Ricciardo just dived on the inside and ran wide himself, not that he was pushed off or anything.

only difference is in what Vettel did.
he saw that "stupid" move coming, breaked early, and dodged him.
If there was max instead, he would break late, pushed him, and they would both ran wide.
and ricciardo got away with it.

[Jolle]

Yes, Ricciardo made the apex, but he didn't make the corner, because he carried too much speed and ran wide.

He made a bad harsh move but didn't run Vettel off track. Vettel was annoyed that Ricciardo just dived on the inside and ran wide himself, not that he was pushed off or anything.

only difference is in what Vettel did.
he saw that "stupid" move coming, breaked early, and dodged him.
If there was max instead, he would break late, pushed him, and they would both ran wide.
and ricciardo got away with it.

It's not about VES or VET. If RIC took the corner like ROS, well... lots of carbon and two DNF's plus a double race ban.

[ringo]

All i will say is that rosberg is wrong any any approach you want to look at it.

If he wasnt in control, he still was wrong for forcing a car of the track. So stewards can play the vettel silverstone card.

If he was in control they can play the rosberg austria card.

He is wrong at all angles and i feel sorry for him because he choses to be desperate and cowowardly instead of fight verstappen for a few more corners the right way. That's the pattern i see with rosberg. He finds the quickest way to dispatch with any semblance of competition and it doesnt matter if that way involves cheating or lieing.
Had he turned in on the apex he could have still get past max in the upcoming corners and even into turn1 if he liked.
But he was too obsessed with going aftrr lewis and batting away everyone else to consider a fair scruff with another driver.

[komninosm]

Did Verstapen start to turn at normal point for that turn or 10s meters before normal (to block Rosberg during braking)? Has anyone done a comparison with his previous lap in that turn?
Is Max lately (2 races) often breaking rule 20.3(second part) and 20.5 for under breaking swerves?
https://f1metrics.wordpress.com/2014/08 ... of-racing/
Why did Rosberg make a 5 second gap and then lose it? Why did they no pit him when the gap was 3.5 seconds and waited for it to evaporate to less than a second?
Why did the team make his 5 second penalty into 8? Was there ever an explanation put forward?

[NathanOlder]

The guy timing it pressed the wrong button on his stopwatch. Ted asked about it and explained it on his notebook.
By the time he noticed 2-3 seconds had passed.
As for a 5 second Gap, I dont recall Nico ever quite getting to 5 seconds. As for leaving him out, everyone expected Nico to gap the red bulls, it just turned out that Nico didnt have the pace.

[Restomaniac]

Did Verstapen start to turn at normal point for that turn or 10s meters before normal (to block Rosberg during braking)? Has anyone done a comparison with his previous lap in that turn?
Is Max lately (2 races) often breaking rule 20.3(second part) and 20.5 for under breaking swerves?
https://f1metrics.wordpress.com/2014/08 ... of-racing/
Why did Rosberg make a 5 second gap and then lose it? Why did they no pit him when the gap was 3.5 seconds and waited for it to evaporate to less than a second?
Why did the team make his 5 second penalty into 8? Was there ever an explanation put forward?

It looked like he started the turn and then saw Rosberg and straightened up but I could be wrong.
Apparently Rosberg had setup issues.
I have no idea but looking how Merc got all their decision wrong it's obvious they messed that up too.
Merc said the stopwatch wasn't working believe it or not.

[dans79]

Did Verstapen start to turn at normal point for that turn or 10s meters before normal (to block Rosberg during braking)? Has anyone done a comparison with his previous lap in that turn?

To my eye Max started to turn a little early maybe 1 or 2 meters at most, as he wanted to take the inside line and then force Nico wide on turn exit. I think Max realized that Nico had waited so long to brake, that if he tried to take the inside line, Nico would have run into the back of him.

if you look at the official stewards report, it says clear as day why he got the penalty and 2 points on his license.
http://www.fia.com/file/46049/download?token=Lgp-oP74

Reason Car 6 forced car 33 off the track in turn 6 and gained a lasting advantage.

sporting regulations
http://www.fia.com/file/40714/download/ ... n=aIudaF8D

38.1 "Incident" means any occurrence or series of occurrences involving one or more drivers, or
any action by any driver, which is reported to the stewards by the race director (or noted by
the stewards and subsequently investigated) which :

a) Necessitated the suspension of a race under Article 41.
b) Constituted a breach of these Sporting Regulations or the Code.
c) Caused a false start by one or more cars.
d) Caused a collision.
e) Forced a driver off the track.
f) Illegitimately prevented a legitimate overtaking manoeuvre by a driver.
g) Illegitimately impeded another driver during overtaking.

Unless it was completely clear that a driver was in breach of any of the above, any incidents
involving more than one car will normally be investigated after the race.

Nico technically broke 38.1 E & G.

If he had given the position back, he probably would have just gotten points on his license, via a post race investigation, most likely because it would be called a dangerous maneuver .

[Jolle]

Shouldn't we open a thread with "The Rosberg manoeuvre of the week" to keep the race threads a bit clean?

Or maybe a poll?