Espionage at Ferrari and McLaren

[wunderkind]

What disappoints me most is how Ferrari is conducting themselves.

If the sole objective of their action is to get to the bottom of the matter and determine who the perpetrators are and their motivation for stealing proprietary information, then I'm all for it.

But Ferrari is using the Italian court and FIA proceedings to put pressure onto McLaren so they will somehow make mistakes on race weekends or cast dark clouds over the McLaren team and their sponsors.

The timing (just before the qualifying session at Monza) by which the Italian court served the notification of criminal investigation was proof that Ferrari's objective was to destabilise McLaren. This move just reeked of bitterness and hate on Ferrari's part. Shame on Jean Todt for instigating such a hate campaign that would devalue the 2007 F1 Championships.

I hope the FIA will take this into consideration this Thursday.

[manchild]

Ferrari wants the truth? Ok, I'm all for the truth.

Than please also put Ferrari on trial for being in possession of future FIA technical regulations during their dominance.

Put both FIA and Ferrari on trial for changing tyre rules to suit Ferrari 2005, 2006 than back again 2007.

Put both FIA and Bridestone on trial for reintroducing 2004 tyres for 2007.

Put Luca di Montezemolo and Jean Todt on trial for fixing outcome of WDC in period 2000-2004.

Put Luca di Montezemolo and Jean Todt on trial for financial loss organizers of Austrian GP suffered due to their team orders.


Justice for all or justice for none!

Let them try to punish Mclaren because (perhaps) official Ferrari team member had a big mouth. That's the end of F1.

[FLC]

Yes, that's very true. If the Italian authorities served Mclaren with those official notes at the beginning of the GP or at the end of it or for this matter at any other point in time other than before qualifying, they would be talking different, for sure. They would tell you that Ferrari were very considerate, full of compassion.

[doorboot]

I have to agree with some of the prior posts. I find it very ironic that Todt is all of a sudden the paragon of honesty and integrity, as is evident in this quote:

I think that we are sorry that it is happening in Formula One, but we are in the position where we want the truth to appear. And that's all that we want, and all that we have been working on and doing. And we are confident that the truth will come through

I am sorry but I do not buy his new found altruistic integrity. I concur with Manchild, the truth is that Ferrari is losing and they are using this hate campaign to their own benefit. All this remind me of a spoiled rich little brat that is throwing a tantrum to get what it wants. It is noisy and annoys everyone around it.
I am sorry to say that I will stop watching and supporting F1 if McLaren is banned. There is no way that I will support a sport that is governed by political motives. By the way I am not an Englishman so this is not about Lewis but rather about what I consider to be fair.

[Rob W]

There are so many hypocritical posts here that it makes me laughs...

I know... it amazes me how people can't see how Ferrari's own reliability problems have been caused by McLaren. I think Ferrari should sue them for making them have to drive their cars too fast and therefore causing more mechanical failures. It's totally not fair.



Rob W

[Rob W]

Oh dear.. He made it all up. =D> =D> =D>

An Italian journalist, who claimed he had evidence of the Fernando Alonso/Pedro de la Rosa's email that has landed McLaren in hot water, has confessed to making up the quotes

http://www.planet-f1.com/story/0,18954, ... 30,00.html

He told the Associated Press: "I made a free interpretation of what might have been said in the email."

It just goes to show how a small miss-truth can affect people's view on things. Italian journalist's reputations might be harmed by this sort of blatant dishonesty... naaa.

Rob W

[doorboot]

How convenient, now that the race is over and lost now he comes clean. So much for the integrity of this journalist and the gulibility of Max Moseley.

[modbaraban]

Must say 1 thing.

McLaren is guilty. Why? Very simple. A guy from Ferrari (let's assume he did it just out of his own interest) brought them some secret data of F2007. Therefore he is involved in espionage. But what makes McLaren involved and giulty? The didn't report to the authorities. Fullstop.

That means. if it happened, the only thing to be investigated and discussed is how guilty McLaren are.

[manchild]

Ferrari putting Mclaren on trial in Modena while Italian journalist makes up evidence. Excellent!

modbaraban, (if Stepney did it) he is not "a guy from Ferrari" but an Ferrari official and if he gave data to an Mclaren offical than if Mclaren is guilty because of that Ferrari is too for bringing sport in dispute and creating an affair.

Another thing. If Mclaren didn't order data or started spying operation to get them than this whole issue isn't espionage because no one was spying on anyone. Data weren't stolen since Stepney possessed them legally and Mclaren didn't stole them from Stepney or asked him to give them or sell them. This is internal Ferrari leak problem and nothing more.

If FIA is so much concerned about data of blueprints how come they are doing absolutely nothing regarding RBR-STR identical cars and SA-RA106? MP 4-22 looks almost the same as MP 4-21 while RBR and STR are identical cars but that doesn't concerns FIA? Mosley's friend, yes... Why isn't FIA concerned about STR "spying" and illegaly (because there is no other way) acquiring RBR blueprints? What about SA and Honda?!

[bar555]

I think both Ferrari and Mc Laren must be punished (including BMW) for different reasons . Do not forget flexible Ferrari font wing last year or the flexible floor this year . Mc Laren must be excluded from 2007 constructor's championship and Ferrari must be eliminated from the first two races points ( same punisment for BMW) . I am not a Renault fan , i back Mc Larem but F1 is a sport after all and not a CIA-KGB intelligent agency . It is so simple , smarter mechanics produce faster cars within FIA regulations .Stollen data ( stollen because Mc Laren kept the secret and did not revealed it ) or braking FIA regulations does not making the sport healthier .

[wunderkind]

I am in full agreement with Manchild and Doorboot.

I think the one crucial point that the Ferrari fans are in total denial on is that the Ferrari design dossier was taken by one of their staff at his own free will and motivated by personal gains.

McLaren was never the INTENDED recipient of the dossier. It ended up in the possession of a senior McLaren personnel at a personal level (please make this distinction very very clear). Evidence that has emerged so far has not suggested McLaren, as an organisation, has anything to do with the alleged theft of this dossier and other material.

Honestly, Modbaraban, I am a McLaren fan. But above all, I am a Formula 1 fan with a soft spot for Ferrari.

But the whole thing happened because Ferrari was furious about one of their most senior staff did this and Jean Todt was dirty about Jonathan Neale (MD of McLaren Racing) not notifying him about the Ferrari dossier when he learned of it. The bottomline is, Jean Todt did a poor job in the management reshuffle when Ross Brawn took his sabbatical after the 2006 season. Its Jean Todt that couldnt keep his house in order!

And to make things worse, Ferrari is having a hard time this year on the track and looks like they are going to lose both the Drivers and Constructors Championships.

The MP4/22 was quite quick out of the box in Winter and pre-season testing. So was it such a big surprise that the McLaren has been so fast throughout the first half of the season. McLaren's winning streak after Australia has proved that the MP4/22 was a fast car capable of winning.

I also find Ferrari's claims that Nigel Stepney sabotaged the cars amusing. Stepney's absence has already done enormous damage to Ferrari. Just look at the number of failures Ferrari has endured after Stepney's departure!!!!!!!

[RacingManiac]

I think both Ferrari and Mc Laren must be punished (including BMW) for different reasons . Do not forget flexible Ferrari font wing last year or the flexible floor this year . Mc Laren must be excluded from 2007 constructor's championship and Ferrari must be eliminated from the first two races points ( same punisment for BMW) . I am not a Renault fan , i back Mc Larem but F1 is a sport after all and not a CIA-KGB intelligent agency . It is so simple , smarter mechanics produce faster cars within FIA regulations .Stollen data ( stollen because Mc Laren kept the secret and did not revealed it ) or braking FIA regulations does not making the sport healthier .

flexible floor was not a rule violation, FIA tested before the race, cleared it, and tested it after the race, cleared it too. it only became "illegal" after FIA re-word the rule and testing procedure....

At any rate, regardless whether Ferrari's personnel get the documents legally or illegally(ever signed a non-disclosure agreement for your job? I guess not ), and whether the McLaren personnel got it with knowledge of the team or not. The fact that the receiver WAS a senior person with ability to influence direction of the design, means you cannot completely seperate the responsibilty of the team. Even if he had never told anybody about the document, he could've gotten ideas from it, and implemented it on the car in its own interpretation. Hard to catch, and hard to prove. But is that any more or less guilty for McLaren, hardly...

[bar555]

just a question , what is better? Ferrari's way "catch me if brake FIA regulations" or Mc Laren's way "prove that i am quilty " .Remember also Bar in 2004 , ( a team with not strong policy ) founded quilty for the extra tank (underweight car) . Bar was convicted mainly not because there was enough proof that the car was underweight BUT because it could do so . Ferrari used movable aero devices but FIA could not prove it and as regards Mc Laren maybe you are right , it did not steal nothing , simply the good fellow Stepney felt that he should help the good Mc Laren win the championship and defeat the bad Ferrari . No it was NOT money the reason he did it .........or maybe it was money ....... who can offer so much money ?????Mc Laren maybe?

[modbaraban]

modbaraban, (if Stepney did it) he is not "a guy from Ferrari" but an Ferrari official and if he gave data to an Mclaren offical than if Mclaren is guilty because of that Ferrari is too for bringing sport in dispute and creating an affair.

That's right. Stepney is guilty in the first place. But you see. If a seller in a store comes up and puts an apple in your pocket, that doesn't mean the whole store should be accused of stealing, but you will be guilty if you walk away and then secretly burn that apple in your backyard

[manchild]

We haven't heard of any proof of how deep data Mike Coughan got was spread (if at all). Ferrari has to prove that Mike gave data to Mclaren bosses. If they can't prove that Ron Dennis had them in his hands than whole Mclaren team can't be punished but only Mike and people he shared them with (now there comes another problem) IF anyone who got in possession of this data wasn't aware that data were illegally acquired than that person can't be found responsible for not reporting stolen files to police and looking into them.

Example to prove this: Two expensive watches missing from a shop but not reported stolen, one person gets one (or buys one) from a friend and another person finds one in his backyard. What's the difference? No difference. They didn't steal a thing but only found something no one reported missing or stolen.

Why didn't Ferrari announce loss of files as soon as they became aware of it? Why didn't they send a memo to all teams, FIA and the public that some files leaked and that anyone abusing them or distributing and not contacting police will be considered as involved in espionage?

They knew files were missing but waited to see how the season is developing and since Mclaren is beating them they are now using politics to get Mclaren disqualified.

The more this affair develops the more I'm becoming convinced that Stepney is telling the truth and that someone from Ferrari is just using him a scapegoat to get rid of Mclaren.