Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

[clipsy1H]

i'm thinking how will be if Michael comeback in 2014 to replace Nico now to be more realistic .... Michael is a great guy if he start talks about what really happened with him at Mercedes probably Daimler will take some people out or more. I don't know how will react Zetsche if discover that Michael was forced to leave team for Lewis because in my opinion Z wants Michael for another year.

[Cocles]

Nothing we didn't already know, but still fun to read nonetheless...

http://www.f1pulse.com/news/2012110642/ ... 3-mercedes

The team isnt capable of giving him a good car before he retires but he has to help them with next years car, Michael you really are a "good guy", too good in my opinion.

Uhm... The W04 has been under development since at least May, probably earlier than that. So yes, the Mercedes head driver has helped develop the Mercedes car. I'm not sure where altruism fits in with all of this.

[clipsy1H]

Nothing we didn't already know, but still fun to read nonetheless...

http://www.f1pulse.com/news/2012110642/ ... 3-mercedes

The team isnt capable of giving him a good car before he retires but he has to help them with next years car, Michael you really are a "good guy", too good in my opinion.

Uhm... The W04 has been under development since at least May, probably earlier than that. So yes, the Mercedes head driver has helped develop the Mercedes car. I'm not sure where altruism fits in with all of this.

yeah but he knew that Hamilton will replace him so he could give a .... about next car if he wanted.... he also could just be around and do almost nothing. But i think is normal what he did .... but i don't know how will react if next car with Lewis or Nico win Championship?? ?? maybe happy because in that car is also his work or mad because he could be that Champion?

[Cocles]

yeah but he knew that Hamilton will replace him so he could give a .... about next car if he wanted...

So he knew that Hamilton was going to join the team throughout the Spring and Summer?

I just want to point out that this whole Michael vs. Mercedes "animosity" is a construct that the other Schumi fans completely made up. There is no evidence. There's nothing in the press. It's a purely made up construct that some posters are now treating as established fact. For all we know Schumacher, Brawn et. al. are all still getting along just fine.

[clipsy1H]

yeah but he knew that Hamilton will replace him so he could give a .... about next car if he wanted...

So he knew that Hamilton was going to join the team throughout the Spring and Summer?

LOL! YES! Even Brawn said that few weeks ago.

Q: Whose choice was Lewis?
RB: Well, we knew that Michael’s contract was coming up for disunion at the end of this year - and knowing that you start to look around at what the situation is. Lewis’s contract was coming up as well at the end of the year, so we had some interest from Lewis’s management last Christmas and it really went from there. Everybody who was involved was able to contribute to convincing Lewis that Mercedes is the team to join - and we all worked on it. A driver as professional as Lewis looks at all the aspects: what the engineering team is like, what the budget is like, what potential there is for the future, as 2014 will be a massive change - and we believe that we are very well placed for 2014. I have spent time with Lewis, Bob Bell from our engine group spent time with Lewis - so we all spent time with him to convince him to make the right move. Nick Fry had quite an involvement with Lewis’s management to help find a solution there - so it was pretty much a team effort. I don’t want to say that I had the idea because it evolved - and I am delighted with the result.

http://www.formula1.com/news/interviews ... 13964.html

[FoxHound]

@clipsy

How do you deduct sitting down with drivers, to having been signed up?
The door was left open for Schumacher long enough, in the end Mercedes negotiations with Hamilton proved prudent as Schumacher dithered over an extension.
Schumacher may be a legend, but when options expire... Expect the team to take that as "I'm outta here", and act upon that.
I can also guarantee that other teams where also speaking to Hamilton.

[Morteza]

Mercedes motorsport chief Norbert Haug accepts that his team's recent performances merit criticism, but says Mercedes' current form is a necessary blip in preparation for a stronger future.

Neither of the team's drivers have scored points since September's Singapore Grand Prix. It has lost all hope of beating Lotus to fourth in the constructors' championship and is at risk of losing fifth to Sauber.

The team introduced a major upgrade package, headlined by a Coanda effect exhaust, in Singapore.

Haug said the need to fully master these developments, plus efforts to upgrade Mercedes' windtunnel programme, meant the behind-the-scenes progress was not yet being reflected on-track.

"We certainly do not get the full benefit of this Coanda technique currently," he said when asked about Mercedes' issues by AUTOSPORT.

"You cannot get that after two or three races. You have quite a high price to pay in terms of fuel load and horsepower and so on, and I think you have to compensate, and I think that is not quite happening.

"But there is no other way to find a solution than to explore it.

"We have had, and this is not an excuse, a period of one-and-a-half to two months where we changed from 50 to 60 per cent [windtunnel] models.

"You need to do that to prepare for the future."

Haug insisted that now Mercedes had proved it was capable of winning grands prix, there was no reason to doubt that it would be back at the front of the field once its current problems were resolved.

"We did not get a win as a present," he said.

"The [Shanghai] track suited the car, but it was still one of the most dominant wins - it was by 20 seconds and it could have been a one-two," he said.

"We were certainly fast in Monaco, we were certainly fast in Montreal. There have been probably a handful of races where we looked pretty competitive.

"But it's right to say that since the summer break we are not where we want to be, and there are reasons for that.

"One is that we need to explore the Coanda exhaust. This is certainly not giving us the full benefit currently in my judgement. On the other hand, we need to do this windtunnel programme for sure.

"If people criticise us, then we fully accept it, but we have been there [at the front] half a year ago, winning a race not by luck, and we're working very hard to get there again in half a year's time.

"This is our programme and this is what we want to achieve."

[Cocles]

The link...

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/104163

[marcush.]

Norby is really comedian stuff ...
how long did it take lotus to win a gP since implementing Coanda? What exactly was the reason why everyone bar MGP realised some time ago that 60% windtunnelmodel size is the way to go ? Wow many championship battles did they fight out in recent years warranting it was worth the sacrifice in tunnel performance for next years car (which was always an early bird according to team propaganda to get a head start)....
They fail to be honest to themselves as much as they are blatantly liars to the public.
There is absolutely no coincidence to be drawn from their current fall from grace and future rise apart from the fact it will be very hard not to rise as they are as low as no works team can afford to be these days.
Other teams have changed key personel and restructured up and down the pitlane -just look at how Williams rose from the ashes this year or Sauber who had to adapt resizing from a full blown works outfit back to a privateer outfit, so all this are lame excuses as in fact MGP has enjoyed perfect staability in key personel with only Bigois leaving this year and the adition of high profile personel in the last 12 months.How this should affect performance on track in a negative ways -no explanation possible.It´s not like you got a new boss and from one day to another everything is on hold till the new broom has decided what to do next and everything is reset to zero..right?
They are like a big ship in shallow water -going slow but evenually they hit a sandbank and ground to a halt.Add 5 captains -the situation does not get any better as there is possibly as many options available to resolve the situation but in effect all are pulling in different directions and the net result is the ship is digging itself ever deeper into the mud.

[FoxHound]

Marcush,

For the sake of the thread, can you please refrain from separating Mercedes the team, from the rest of the paddock as if they operate in some alternate universe to the rest?
Ferrari have lied, Williams have lied, Renault(Lotus) are official liars as are McLaren, and Red Bull are lying(via RB technologies).
Mercedes issue a press release and you get heated....my god man, you should try being a McLaren fan. It's worse!

You mention Mercedes have had stability...Bigois' name is on the W03, he left....where is Costa in this picture? He was incumbent 6 months AFTER the W03 was on the drawing board. Elliott only joined this year,(and was in his seat 2 months ago... its still very much in a state of waxing and waning.
Sauber hit the Pirelli sweet spot and they had an excellent exhaust concept, do you think with Key leaving they would be all lost at sea because of this?
And other than Parr (nothing to do on the car side) and Sam Micheals(questionable what he adds), whom have Williams lost?

One minute you compare them to the old BAR team, the next they are a full blown "works team". You can laugh at Norby all you like, it doesn't help to personalise the situation.
Bottom line here, in his situation you would be doing exactly the same thing....changing from what was before.

[TheBaverianBasterd]

Mercedes F1 team is in bigger trouble than people here know. 2013 is already a lost cause. They are so far behind what was once the midfield teams. Lewis did not go to the team for any reason other than to get paid. If the team happens to somehow luck out and win, that is a side benefit for Lewis. His management will throw this team under the bus when the timing is right. Lauda also cares not one bit about this time. He's there to get paid as well. I've spoken with some sources in Stuttgart, and they laughed when I asked them if this team has any long term future. I can't believe they are willing to sacrifice DTM entries for some idiocy like fielding a F1 team.

[Cocles]

Mercedes F1 team is in bigger trouble than people here know.

You must be new.

2013 is already a lost cause.

You are in a position to state this as fact, because...?

They are so far behind what was once the midfield teams. Lewis did not go to the team for any reason other than to get paid. If the team happens to somehow luck out and win, that is a side benefit for Lewis. His management will throw this team under the bus when the timing is right. Lauda also cares not one bit about this time. He's there to get paid as well.

Thank you for summarizing the past two months of this thread for us.

I've spoken with some sources in Stuttgart, and they laughed when I asked them if this team has any long term future.

"Sources in Stuttgart"... really? Do they actually work for Mercedes in a position where they would actually know something? If not, no one cares. If so, you should say that when you site them. For all we know, you're citing friends who moved to Stuttgart six months ago and don't even watch F1.

I can't believe they are willing to sacrifice DTM entries for some idiocy like fielding a F1 team.

Yes, dear god... how dare they sacrifice Susie Wolff's pink, back-marker Mercedes for an F1 program. Darn them! <shakes fist>

[SSS]

The whole 50% to 60% logic is insanely stupid & for noobs. Lotus did the same & created a Great Car & Developed it brilliantly.

Mercedes could have come up with a better excuse.

[banibhusan]

What makes me wonder is what were Mercedese doing in the past 2 years then. When everyone has moved from 50% to 60% scale WT, then why were they still working with a 50% scale? May be they saved it as an excuse for this year's failure!!

[elf341]

The whole 50% to 60% logic is insanely stupid & for noobs. Lotus did the same & created a Great Car & Developed it brilliantly.

Mercedes could have come up with a better excuse.

I see what you're saying, although I think your comment is a bit mis-directed. Firstly, Mercedes started off with an alright car and have failed to develop it in line with the performance improvement evidenced by the other teams. One reason for this is clearly a lack of wind tunnel for 2 months. This is an apt excuse.

What is not an apt excuse is that Mercedes did not recognise earlier that they should have made this transition. Why not in 2010, when they gave up early to concentrate on the W02? Or why not in 2011, when at 2/3rds through the season they were clearly out of reach of Renault?

Lotus/Renault made their WT upgrade in late 2011, and their terrible season may have been the reason for that acknowledgement - James allison said that the additional downforce figures given by their front exit exhaust were just one third of that as predicted by their 50% wind-tunnel. Fast forward a year and you have Ross Brawn coming out and saying that they underestimated the advantage of Coanda-style exhaust because of the 50% wind-tunnel - the dots were certainly there to connect, but it seems Mercedes didn't partake. That itself needs a better excuse - I think in all honestly they got perhaps a bit arrogant with their 1st, 4th, 4th set of results believing that they were so far ahead of 5th place technologically that they could not lose their 4th in just one season.