Performance enables a car to run towards the front. You have to have the ability to make the strategy work...just like Sauber this year.Cocles wrote:Oh, do tell...marcush. wrote:They have artificially upped the statistics by running weird strategies enabling them to run further towrds the front...
Yes, I have to agree. It looks like Mercedes were vindicated by going with their trick DDRS and suspension systems early on, causing them to not jump into the coanda exhaust as early as the others. The WT could have been a likely reason. Then, when other teams made such large performance jumps with their exhausts, Mercedes was left behind. The promising thing here is the W03 was competitive at several tracks early in the season. The chances of the team producing another good car initially is high, but can the team keep up with the others through a season?elf341 wrote:I see what you're saying, although I think your comment is a bit mis-directed. Firstly, Mercedes started off with an alright car and have failed to develop it in line with the performance improvement evidenced by the other teams. One reason for this is clearly a lack of wind tunnel for 2 months. This is an apt excuse.SSS wrote:The whole 50% to 60% logic is insanely stupid & for noobs. Lotus did the same & created a Great Car & Developed it brilliantly.
Mercedes could have come up with a better excuse.
What is not an apt excuse is that Mercedes did not recognise earlier that they should have made this transition. Why not in 2010, when they gave up early to concentrate on the W02? Or why not in 2011, when at 2/3rds through the season they were clearly out of reach of Renault?
Lotus/Renault made their WT upgrade in late 2011, and their terrible season may have been the reason for that acknowledgement - James allison said that the additional downforce figures given by their front exit exhaust were just one third of that as predicted by their 50% wind-tunnel. Fast forward a year and you have Ross Brawn coming out and saying that they underestimated the advantage of Coanda-style exhaust because of the 50% wind-tunnel - the dots were certainly there to connect, but it seems Mercedes didn't partake. That itself needs a better excuse - I think in all honestly they got perhaps a bit arrogant with their 1st, 4th, 4th set of results believing that they were so far ahead of 5th place technologically that they could not lose their 4th in just one season.
I don't think they were in any debt. Honda lost money, for sure, but didn't they more or less cover the costs for 1 year while it was Brawn? Either way Brawn deserved to make money from it. He took the risk to save peoples jobs and it paid off. But thats another discussion.Huntresa wrote:Brawn GP was never in much debt, and Brawn himself and others made so much money from Brawn GP it wasnt even funny.winth304 wrote:maybe merc gp was in debt due to the brawn gp year? maybe this debt is now paid off?banibhusan wrote:What makes me wonder is what were Mercedese doing in the past 2 years then. When everyone has moved from 50% to 60% scale WT, then why were they still working with a 50% scale? May be they saved it as an excuse for this year's failure!!
It thought it to be 40 mill for operating costs. I do not recall precisely but i think it was a Auto Motor und Sport article.dren wrote:Brawn bought the team from Honda for 1 pound. Honda supplied 100mil for operating costs that year.
wouldn't this cost more wind-tunnel time?marcush. wrote:I think all teams have had Windtunnel and CFD correlation issues now and then and possibly it is simply caused by the fact you are asking something of the tools at hand they are not able to deliver and maybe never meant to be able to do so.
Question is if you could run a 50% model in a 60% tunnel without creating big issues .
In this case the question would be why not run paralell 50/60 programmes to validate your 60% work with confidence and only when you get no additional input from running 50% models you drop it alltogether.
sure ,but would you prefer 50% work done with 100% correlation to 100%work done and nothing is coming of it? The reality is they have struggled to improve their machine at the same rate as their competitors and that´s the reason they have fallen back .They have a tunnel ,they have people so why do they a) not come up with updates b) those few bits coming do not make a significant difference to their performance when on the other hand every other team has made significant steps to raise their competitiveness -RedBull,Ferrari,Mclaren,Sauber,Lotus,Force India ,Marussia...winth304 wrote:wouldn't this cost more wind-tunnel time?marcush. wrote:I think all teams have had Windtunnel and CFD correlation issues now and then and possibly it is simply caused by the fact you are asking something of the tools at hand they are not able to deliver and maybe never meant to be able to do so.
Question is if you could run a 50% model in a 60% tunnel without creating big issues .
In this case the question would be why not run paralell 50/60 programmes to validate your 60% work with confidence and only when you get no additional input from running 50% models you drop it alltogether.
](./images/smilies/eusa_wall.gif "Brick wall"){kind=small}
for a nice competition i hope next year they will bring something to boost in front (maybe a rocket)
Another way of interpreting this, is that Merc did just that. They sacrificed their precious wind-tunnel time for calibration purposes, which is why we didn't see much development. So they probably did run both programs in parallel (as you suggested) to do some baseline checks. But his used a lot of their windtunnel time.marcush. wrote: sure ,but would you prefer 50% work done with 100% correlation to 100%work done and nothing is coming of it? The reality is they have struggled to improve their machine at the same rate as their competitors and that´s the reason they have fallen back .They have a tunnel ,they have people so why do they a) not come up with updates b) those few bits coming do not make a significant difference to their performance when on the other hand every other team has made significant steps to raise their competitiveness -RedBull,Ferrari,Mclaren,Sauber,Lotus,Force India ,Marussia...
They said they keep on working on W03...n smikle wrote:You wont see any major upgrades for this car anymore.
Link ? Cause ive read otherwise.SchuMassa wrote:They said they keep on working on W03...n smikle wrote:You wont see any major upgrades for this car anymore.
