Mercedes GP W02

[Ferraripilot]

It's being mentioned that there are several upgrades at this race. Any pics or news as to what they are? So far the only thing I can see is the gurney on the front wing element proceeds halfway across the top wing element ending more inboard than previously.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Anyone else notice how the W02 "leans" into corners? seems to have a substantial amount of roll heading in and out of tighter corners.

A poster alluded to some "different" suspension that Mercedes have with this car, can anyone shed some light on that?

[jav]

Anyone else notice how the W02 "leans" into corners? seems to have a substantial amount of roll heading in and out of tighter corners.

A poster alluded to some "different" suspension that Mercedes have with this car, can anyone shed some light on that?

I beleive he's referring to a rumoured hydraulic crosslinked suspension setup that has never been proven to exist on W02 (that I know of). My understanding is that it works as a sort of anti-dive arrangement- directing hydaulic pressure from the highest loaded corner, to the lowest (cross corner). I don't fully know or understand the details but I beleive some generalities have been posted here previously.

[shelly]

There have been rumors baout this kind of system on Ferrari also iirc

[Mr.S]

I dont know what kind of upgrades they are bringing but this looks to be Mercedes weakest track,Suzuka is not going to be very strong either.With all upgrades or whatever MSC has is 2 full seconds behind Seb. Ofcourse you never know because of teh fuel loads but I am worried about next year. They are 1-1.5 seconds behind & maybe only 1-2 tenths will be because of SWB.

WHere are they going to find the full extra second??? The low nose should work in Mercedes favour as they have had very low noses in the last 2 seasons & EBD was not Mercedes strong point either.I see them at best making up 0.5 seconds. They will still be 0.5-0.7s off the pace. Maybe podiums instead of race wins. I know this is not the smartest prediction to make but with no major rule changes I dont see Mercedes taking that big a step.

[Carbon]

I beleive he's referring to a rumoured hydraulic crosslinked suspension setup that has never been proven to exist on W02 (that I know of). My understanding is that it works as a sort of anti-dive arrangement- directing hydaulic pressure from the highest loaded corner, to the lowest (cross corner). I don't fully know or understand the details but I beleive some generalities have been posted here previously.

Wouldn't this type of system be constituted as 'active suspension'?

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Ok thanks Jav+shelly.

I do wonder how the rumours started. But looking at the car leaning into the corners the way it does kinda perplexes me. Maybe this is their set up solution to the tyre degradation issues they suffered from in early season.

[jav]

I beleive he's referring to a rumoured hydraulic crosslinked suspension setup that has never been proven to exist on W02 (that I know of). My understanding is that it works as a sort of anti-dive arrangement- directing hydaulic pressure from the highest loaded corner, to the lowest (cross corner). I don't fully know or understand the details but I beleive some generalities have been posted here previously.

Wouldn't this type of system be constituted as 'active suspension'?

I think it would be considered "passive" if there were no driver/ecu controls but what do I know? Everything is both legal and questionable until determined otherwise I guess.

I have not heard any team confirm it's existance- let alone use.

BTW- YUCK for this practice! 2 and 4 seconds off the pace is scary.

[Richard]

It wouldn't be active because there is no external control. It's just like linking across a car with a torsion bar (or hydraulic equivalent). The only difference is that this (if it exists) would be diagonal.

An active system use external energy (ie electricity or hydraulic pump)to change the suspension or vary the damping/springing.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

@ Mr S

The W03 will be behind the RB8 for certain.

But its what they decide to extract from the W02 and use on the W03 that will be telling. I think the pictures of the RB7 floor at Monza may help teams understand a little of where Red Bull is getting its grip from.

All we can hope for is to see the gap reduced. But I expect them to be no closer than 0.7 seconds come the start of next year, not with the W02 being so weak on aero intensive tracks and insufficient data to bring forward and utilise effectively on its predecessor.

Re: the suspension. I did read somewhere that Mercedes had a unique set up, but I cannot find anything concrete as per scarbs etc.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

BTW- YUCK for this practice! 2 and 4 seconds off the pace is scary.

Yup, this track is exposing Mercedes aerodynamic pitfalls. There is just no grip for the W02 to get is power down and to make it "stick" round corners.
Loic Bigois must be up for the chop now I think....

[Ferraripilot]

I dont know what kind of upgrades they are bringing but this looks to be Mercedes weakest track,Suzuka is not going to be very strong either.With all upgrades or whatever MSC has is 2 full seconds behind Seb. Ofcourse you never know because of teh fuel loads but I am worried about next year. They are 1-1.5 seconds behind & maybe only 1-2 tenths will be because of SWB.

WHere are they going to find the full extra second??? The low nose should work in Mercedes favour as they have had very low noses in the last 2 seasons & EBD was not Mercedes strong point either.I see them at best making up 0.5 seconds. They will still be 0.5-0.7s off the pace. Maybe podiums instead of race wins. I know this is not the smartest prediction to make but with no major rule changes I dont see Mercedes taking that big a step.

I don't think they are quite a full 2 seconds off, but closer to 1-1.5 makes more sense IMO. I believe Schu held back in S3 as he was a full second off pace in that sector alone (largest gap of all sectors), yet that is the sector where W02 would be best as it is full of stop and go mechanical terms, which per Schu at Monza is a strong point of the car -which was certainly much to everyone's surprise as we believed it to be terrible in mechanical sections. The car looked reasonable enough in the high downforce area of S2 and S1 though. Not bad

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Unlikely ferraripilot.

The commentators were saying that the final sector was made for the Red Bull.
The W02 suffers on RB7 strengths, and it proved that in all the timing in the final sector.

He was 0.7 down after 2 sectors, then lost 1.4 seconds in the final sector. So while the reality may be that the car isnt 2 seconds of the pace, that final sector is not good for the Merc according to the guys in the box at Singapore. Mediocre but agreed it's not bad positionally speaking.

[dren]

They will be closer in the race, maybe a second a lap or so. The car doesn't have enough downforce. The W02 fixed on the poor traction and braking the W01 had, but it seems like it lost some downforce. Maybe the EBD didn't create what the team had expected.

It's back to business as usual for the W02. The Renault looks bad with the upgrades. I don't expect them to be too strong. So Mercedes is looking at 7th and 8th assuming Massa doesn't suck it up again.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

The ebd is still an improvement on the exhaust mounted midships.

The glaring problem is downforce or lack of it. I don't know how this can be overcome with minuscule tweaks to the front wing. Huge change is required if they are to challenge next year, but I'm hoping lessons learned under bell with the w02 will bear fruits next year with a podium challenger.