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During the Extraordinary General Assembly (EGA) held in Paris today, the FIA Member Clubs voted on a motion of confidence in the FIA President. Max Mosley won the majority of support for him to continue in his role.
I am far from denying Mr. Windsor or you an opinion. I do not fail to note that he takes his bread from Mr. Murdoch who is known to be partisan to the issue. I still say he should know better. I have no problem to wait and see who eventually is right about this. I say Max and Bernie are finally on opposite sides of the F1 game and you say they are still collaborating. easy to remember. we will speak about it when it is resolved. so lets go back to pleasanteries please.John Stitch wrote:If that is the case you need to practice what you preach.WhiteBlue wrote:Dear John,John Stitch wrote:[I can see your brought your blinkers and your command over right and wrong with you.
it is lovely to see you so full of concerns. Please allow a solitary voice for liberty and justice to be heard. There are so few of them and a bit of contrary opinion never hurts. It is far from me to command anybody, quite contrary! I enjoy variety in opinion. as you know I'm not a fan of group pressure for a party line. If you have a constructive point to make (other than accusing me of wearing blinkers) I would appreciate the opportunity to exchange views in a civilized argument.
yours sincerely WhiteBlue
Windsor is entitled to his opinion, he has been in the F1 for a long time and has closer associations with F1 people than you do. Indeed he is an F1 people.
You say you enjoy contrary opinion and yet you deride his opinion when indeed his is the contrary one.
You are the one that is following, sheepishly, the opinion that there is a rift between BE and MM which is the popular one.
For the record I happen to think the same as Windsor.
the other thread on the break away series has produced some serious hints what could be going on but let us first have a look at the facts:nae wrote:the assumption of your theory (whiteblue) is that those that set up max hail from the world of formula 1 and they stand to gain something from the exposé
a bit simplistic for a devious underhand move dont you think ?
if max has been doing this for years then there is little doubt it has actually been common knowledge within some circles or other for an equally long time.
its hardly damning of the man
but perhaps it was enacted in the full knowledge that max would fight his corner hard and garner the support of the minor FIA delegates and expose the FIA in the manor it has
perhaps the plan was
if max resigned then its a win
if max doesnt resign then its still a win
I personally am beginning to form the view that Max set himself up in a do or die play, as you say the man isnt long for the job (all be it years after he said he would go)
thus ensuring his support for moves as yet unseen, it certainly isnt beyond the realms of possibility
and if that is slightly true and with max not getting paid for the role
there is no money to follow
i do however wait with baited breath for the final outcome, if there is such a thing
who would be daft enough to risk there F1 reputation on such and operation
Not the silver team (lost to much already and way to much to loose)
Not the red team (to devious and underhand, no advantage to be gained anyway)
Nor the rest of the players still in the game (to much corporate £ at stake)
maybe its Stepney or coulgan (sp) (already lost there respect so why not)
maybe its bernie (the master manipulator and at 77 why not)
or perhaps just some random with an unseen axe to grind
but i (as i said) suspect max (little to loose and perhaps loads to gain)
who do you suspect?
perhaps a pole on the issue (not kubica )
for thre time being it looks like Bernie will have to tolerate the FIA and sort out a concord that is acceptable to Max Mosley if he wants one. This probably means that things pretty much stay as they are. the customer car scheme is off and the rules will be done by majority voting.One sport insider says: "However much the teams may disapprove of his behaviour, the line Mosley takes within Formula One is a line they, largely, support. The worry is that if he went, then it could all fall into other, unknown, hands." He says that Mosley provides a counterpoint to Formula One Holdings owner Bernie Ecclestone, and that "he can be relied upon to take a view of what is going to make the most successful future of motor racing".
now some of the F1 media have woken up to the fact that the Mosley scandal may be more related to commercial issues than keeping up morals in the paddok.The F1-FIA plot thickens - or does it?
Bernie Ecclestone has written to all the FIA club presidents saying that he wishes to clarify the current situation, blaming confusion on the media - a regular thing in F1 circles.
He says that "the position of Formula One Management and the teams and the Formula 1 promoters is very simple. They would like a Concorde Agreement signed in basically the same format as in the past agreements".
Ecclestone goes on to say that "a number of manufacturers and teams along with their sponsors have stated that they thought the president should step down because of matters in his private life. This is their and only their opinion as they are not part of the FIA and therefore do not have votes".
He adds that Max Mosley has been a friend for 40 and "hopes that he still is". He concludes by saying that Mosley has "in his way carried out many matters which have been beneficial to the FIA and should be appreciated for this".
It is not clear what this letter hopes to achieve, beyond being slightly more conciliatory than some of the statements attributed to Ecclestone in recent weeks.
What is interesting is that the letter coincides with new rumours that suggest that CVC Capital Partners may be involved in preliminary talks with Rupert Murdoch's News Corp about selling its shares in the Formula One group, presumably by way of the ultimate holding company at the moment, Delta Topco. This is a Jersey-based company which is 70% owned by CVC with other shares belonging to JPMorgan, Lehman Brothers, the Ecclestone Family trust Bambino and Bernie Ecclestone himself.
In the current circumstances, it is hard to know whether any rumour can be trusted because there are all manner of propaganda wars going on to create impressions that may or may not be true. Rather than try to analyse whether this is right or wrong, it is probably best to simply state that the rumour exists.
It is certainly an interesting and logical idea as News Corp is one of the few companies that might be able to generate more revenues from the sport, because it owns and operates not only TV stations but also satellite TV networks such as Sky and DirecTV. These allow the company to broadcast its own programming without having to rely on other TV companies for delivery or for content.
This could mean that the various News Corp stations could generate the advertising revenues associated with F1 without needing to use the traditional broadcasters, which currently pay for the TV rights but then make their money back and generate profits by selling advertising.
There are any number of implications of such a deal, not least that News Corp owns the News of the World newspaper, the publication that exposed Max Mosley's recent escapades and it is now heavily involved in legal action with the FIA President.
The FIA has a controversial veto clause in its contract with the Formula One group that allows it to refuse a change of ownership if it does not like the buyer.
The rumour may be a complete fabrication but people trying to create perceptions about the Mosley Scandal, but it is not easy to know fact from fiction at the moment.
How does Murdoch own part of CVC? I thought that private equity firms are quite intransparent regarding equity shares. I know that there is geographical information on the sources of funds and some other detail but Newscorp being an equity shareholder is a big surprise.Ciro Pabón wrote:Well, "we" noticed about two months ago, in this very thread that Murdoch owns NOTW and part of CVC, but some people was too busy looking for other motives.
Anyway, it's my opinion that Mosley is a stupid guy: you cannot afford to have such an "interesting" private life if you want to preside a public corporation: some day somebody will use your weaknesses to smear the institution or thwart your plans. It's not the first time, it will not be the last.
that may be jumping to conclusions. they also do FTA TV.nae wrote:so its the end of free to air tv broadcasting if bernie wins...
considering that CVC in 2005 loaded F1 with 1.8 bil US$ additional debt that went into their own coffers it isn't surprising that the FIA may want to divert some of that towards the failing teams and grass root motor sport. it would make some sense.The letter comes in the wake of a decision by Mosley to cancel an important meeting with Ecclestone in London this week. Sources at the FIA indicate that there is considerable tension between the men and that there is likely to be a disagreement on a new Concorde deal centring on the FIA's plan to reduce the amount of money earned by Ecclestone and to redistribute the balance among the Formula One teams.
of course a veto voting right will stabilise the regulations. it will go back to calcifying them in fact.The position of Formula One Management and the teams and the Formula One promoters is very simple. They would like a Concorde Agreement signed in basically the same format as in the past agreements which Formula One has been governed successfully by this type of document for over 25 years which helps to stabilise the Technical and Sporting Regulations.
It is still a little early for CVC to be thinking of selling the Formula One group, although it has been a very high profile problem child, even if it has already delivered huge profits to the business. The rumours may not be true, but there is sufficient logic is such a deal to make them plausible if not tomorrow, certainly in a few years from now.
So now we have another important fact. Mosley was set up with the aim of removing him from office. Bernie now claims that he did not do it and did not know of Max SM sessions. Both claims are difficult to believe. Coming from Newscorp it has more of the smell of creating a diversion and muddying the waters. If it wasn't Bernie who set up Max was it Newscorp alone? The incredible fast cooperation between the Mistress Abi/husband team and NoTW gives rise to the conclusion that the Newscorp paper was in collusion with the sting operation. It is obvious that Bernie would be rid of some serious problems if Max was removed. He knew of Max's plans to transfer money to the teams since May 2007. some things do not add up.Max Mosley was 'warned of plot against him'
FIA President Max Mosley arrives in pitlane before practice for the Monaco Formula One Grand Prix at the Monte Carlo Circuit
Edward Gorman, Motor Racing Correspondent
Max Mosley, the president of the FIA, was warned by Bernie Ecclestone two months before his private life was exposed in a Sunday newspaper that people had been hired to discredit him and that they had been given an “unlimited budget” to do so, according to an intelligence consultant.
Rather than being a party to a conspiracy to destroy his old friend, as Mosley's spokesman has hinted this week, The Times can reveal that Ecclestone did his best to tell Mosley that he was being targeted and was astonished and angry when it became obvious that Mosley had ignored the advice he was given.
Ecclestone discovered that there was a plot to bring down the FIA president through Dean Attew, a London-based business intelligence consultant who used to work for the Formula One rights-holder and has also advised Mosley. In an exclusive interview with The Times, Attew disclosed that he was contacted in the third week of January this year by someone representing people who wanted Mosley removed from office.
The approach came more than two months before the News of the World published its first revelations and a video showing Mosley taking part in a five-hour sadomasochistic bondage session with five prostitutes in a “torture dungeon” in Chelsea, West London, which included alleged Nazi prison camp role play.
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Attew, a co-founder of Titon International, the corporate intelligence company, said: “In January this year I received a call from a friend. We had a meeting and I was approached and told there was an open budget to effectively go out and source material that would bring Max to his knees and, more importantly, remove him from office and discredit him publicly.
“During the conversation I said to the guy, 'What's your budget?' and he said, 'It's an open budget,' and I said, 'OK, be specific here, are you after Max, are you after the FIA or are you after Bernie?' They then went back and they came back a little while later and said, 'We are not going to pursue it for the time being.' The person contacted me because they knew of my relationship with Bernie but did not know of my relationship with Max. The reason they contacted me was to find out whether I had any loyalty to Max and whether I knew anything of value.”
Attew said that he considered the contact to be credible and he took the conversation seriously. Rather than assist the contact, Attew informed Ecclestone. “I sat down with Bernie and told him what I'd heard,” Attew said. “Bernie then told Max - I know this because Max later confirmed this to me. Because of the relationship I have with both of them, and Max knowing who I was, I assumed that the warning would be taken seriously.”
Attew recalls that at that stage Ecclestone doubted that Mosley had any secrets to hide and had no idea about Mosley's predilection for orgies with prostitutes. “When I sat down with Bernie I said to him, 'Is there anything anyone is going to find out about Max?'” Attew said. “And Bernie said, 'Dean, you are not going to find anything because there's nothing there - he's Mr Boring in that sense.' Mosley had kept this a good secret.”
Two days after the first story on the scandal had been published, Attew contacted Mosley after being asked to do so by Ecclestone, who, despite his anger at what had transpired, wanted Attew to give whatever assistance or advice he could to the FIA president. During this phone call, Attew says that Mosley admitted that he had received the warning from Ecclestone in January and that he had been warned by someone else, too. Attew also says that Mosley conveyed to him detailed personal information about his private life during that phone call, which Attew does not wish to disclose.
Attew, who heads Titon International in partnership with Major-General John Holmes, a former director of UK Special Forces, believes that Mosley or his spokesman could have disclosed these details in recent weeks, rather than leave speculation linking Ecclestone to the exposé to fester. It is for this reason that he has taken the unprecedented step of coming out of the shadows to set the record straight.
“I hear things about people suggesting Bernie was behind this, but that is ridiculous,” Attew said. “From the very first indication Bernie and I, with Max's knowledge, have tried to find out who was the source.”
Attew is also angry at the way Mosley ignored the advice that he was given. “It was very clear that Max had disregarded both the advice he had been given and had failed to realise his vulnerability at that stage,” Attew said. “The issue for me was his total disregard for genuine advice from individuals that he knew had his best interests at heart. When we saw what was in the News of the World, Bernie was as flabbergasted as I was.”
Attew was on Ecclestone's staff for four years until 2004 and had a desk at Ecclestone's London office, where he assisted with a wide variety of issues concerning Ecclestone's business and family affairs. Titon International was in the news two years ago when it emerged that Alexander Litvinenko, the murdered former KGB agent, had worked for the company as a consultant on Russian business. Litvinenko was poisoned with polonium-210, traces of which were found at Titon's offices, in Grosvenor Street, Mayfair.