The relative benefits of a pull rod suspension

[marcush.]

double compromise for ferrari-they need to decline pushrod angle by raising the lower attachment point-I doubt they can change the inclination of the rocker arms.-so further losses as there is angularity robbing efficiency at some area of their suspension travel.So for the RB style exhaust pull rod is the way to go.

[mep]

what a great shot of the RedBull box! many thanks.

The lever arm is really BIG and has a very wide base-the upper svivelpoint as high as the inboard wishbone pickup...and ending right at the bottom of the box
and the damper sits out side the box...

You can also see the transversial svivel point of the arb at the same height as the diff centre

marcush, have you already seen this picture?
It shows the Redbull rocker. Which is, hmm lets say very a very strange one.
I am still wondering where everything is mounted.



Edit: added this picture again for easier back to back check:

[marcush.]

tbh ,it´s like I thought it would be looking except for the (side)damper mounting.As this seems very say unfavourable in terms of leverage .

Obviously the pullrod and damper are not mounted here.the lowest fork is obviously the pullrod attachment and the second one is the fork to mount the damper eyelet.The damper is mounted in paralell to the box ,inclined upwards towards the back..it does not look like the damper has much in terms of travel...but who cares when you have already sacrificed everything with the awkward forward angling of the pullrod...

[PlatinumZealot]

The lowest fork is not for the pull-rod if you look carefully at the picture with the damper connected. Look at the little blue bearing. Something else connects there.

[hardingfv32]

Marcush is correct. The lower two rocker mounting points are for the pull-rod and damper. The upper rocker mounting point (near the corner of the battery box) is for the heave and ARB system. You can see where the heave/sway-bar spring is splined into the gearbox. The metal insert for this is located about 5-6" above the top mounting point of the rocker.

I would estimate there is another set of rockers/bell-cranks that allow the use of a mechanism similar to that on top of the Ferrari gearbox.

I'm not sure there is anything wrong with the forward angled pull-rods if you correctly account for the addition forces require to make it work.

Brian

[mep]

I agree with n_smikle the pull-rod is not mounted in the fork. It is mounted in single shear behind that fork. I have no glue what is mounted in the fork. On my second picture you can see something blue in it but in the first one you wonder what this could be and where it will run to. Maybe its a sensor for ride height.

The damper is possible mounted in the fork located in the middle of the part. The next thing to wonder about is where the rocker actually is mounted to the gearbox and has its rotation axis. Maybe the second metallic part bellow the rocker is the lower mounting point for the rocker. The upper mounting point could be at top of the long up pointing lever but that’s more likely the mounting point for the anti-roll bar. Which seem to have almost no leverage to the mounting point (wherever that is).

So open questions:
Where is the mounting point/rotation axis of the rocker?
What is mounted to the lowest fork?
What is this separate metallic part below the rocker for?

Also for me it seems like the damper is not really pointing towards the rocker at all. The damper seems to be really far away of the rocker. Unfortunately the beginning of the damper is covered by some other parts on the picture. On the picture from the other side I miss the mounting point of the damper to the gearbox.

These two pictures really puzzle me a lot.

[marcush.]

oops ..i was a bit too quick there.
the lowest fork is definetely not for the rull rod -but it is the second fork from the bottom!The two pictures give indication of the elaborate sculpturing of the lever arm ..cool stuff.
An the lowest fork is actually for the damper eye...giving a good lever arm and at least a decent amount of shock travel .Now it makes sense to me.

The lever arm is actually a big A with a broad base the axis of rotation is inclined forward -going from the bottom of the box where you can see the bearing trunnion-up to the height of the wishbone .here you can see the third fork which is actuating the ARB and heavespring/j-damper.

[mep]

I think is time to add some figures to the pictures to make sure we talk about the same mounting points.





That’s how I understand it at the moment.

1. Damper mounting
2. pull rod mounting
3. I have no idea. First I thought it would be damper mounting currently I rather think its upper pivot point of rocker, with some part missing.
4. antiroll bar mounting
5. I also wonder what this is. Looks like a separate part, maybe lower pivot point of rocker.

[hardingfv32]

Adding figures is a big help.

1 and 2 are correct, damper & pull-rod

4 is correct, heave and ARB

5 is the rocker's lower pivot mounting point.

Now 3, could this be a middle pivot point for the rocker? I would say with the heave and ARB fed in at the top of the rocker that a upper pivot mounting point is required. Possibly the rocker's design is limited in shape and strength by the aero requirements of this location. There is also the issue of the forward angled pull-rod and the higher force levels required. This middle mount/pivot location could be supported be a tripod type mount. The broader the mounting points, the lighter/thinner the transmission case can be.

Brian

[ringo]

3. Is the wheel tether slot, see it snaking up to the Arm in the first pic? It's a black cable with a red collar.

4. Is not clear because it has very little movement if any, it' too close to the pivot.

[hardingfv32]

3 - The tether idea looks valid. The one photo does seem to support that theory. I believe an additional tether is required this year (two per wheel?). Maybe the gearbox was designed before the new tether requirement. Regardless, this would be a simple solution.

4- It is very hard to judge the rocker angles and distances involve from these photos. Scarbs does feel this is for the heave/ARB system. He states that these components are mounted above the clutch area. The heave/ARB system does not seem to be mounted on the outside of the transmission case in these photos. Installing them above the clutch would be reasonable with the rocker mounted so far forward. All of these component locations also integrate well with RBR cooling exhaust located above the gearbox.

Brian

[PlatinumZealot]

OK guys, Ferrari are in trouble.. (joke)

They have thrown everything but the proverbial kitchen sink

- pullrod suspension. Time to do it Ferrari!

It is rumored by me that they are going to change by mid-season! You heard it here first!

[Byronrhys]

OK guys, Ferrari are in trouble.. (joke)

They have thrown everything but the proverbial kitchen sink

- pullrod suspension. Time to do it Ferrari!

It is rumored by me that they are going to change by mid-season! You heard it here first!

That wouldn't be too smart, changing your whole suspension dynamics and having to change the pic up points on the gearbox would be too much, possibly even making them worse.

[Ciro Pabón]

Well, if they are mistaken (and only Ferrari knows) in their general suspension layout, it is about time to start correcting it. As somebody said recently in my local newspapers (no offense intended): "only stupids never change".

I agree with Byronrhys: it is complicated. So, that is an argument in favor of doing midyear, when your season prospects are clear and you start to work towards 2012.

However, as we all know, the world ends in 2012 so perhaps it is not worth the effort. After all, in January 31, the asteroid 433 Eros will hit New York, London, Paris, Moscow and Peking and F1 Technical servers simultaneously.

BTW, I think it is about time to move the Brazilian GP to January 15: after that date, because of the riots in Asia and the Middle East fires, I don't see pull rods designs going much longer.

This thing is coming toward us right when the shuttle is being grounded! Coincidence? I don't think so... It measures 13 x 13 x 33 kilometers and we all know the bad luck that being hit by an object with a 13 in it brings


The good news is that this thread will end in January 31, 2012.

The servers in Belgium being hit. The sole purpose of this asteroid in the cosmic order of things is to finish this very thread. Thank, God. I'm a believer again. You're just and merciful.

[Just_a_fan]

If something that big ever hits the planet full-on then we're all dead. No escape, no second chances.