Mercedes GP W02

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter do not belong here.
marcush.
marcush.
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Joined: 09 Mar 2004, 16:55

Re: Mercedes GP W02

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W02 and W01 did not look conservative compared to the opposition but both cars lacked in the Aero efficiency area and W01 had bad traction on top of that.
Very clearly the "tyre issues" Brawn had already in 2009 were made responsible for every glitch and lack of performance in 2009 and 2010 even in 2011 we have heard them talking a bit too much about tyre related issues.
BUT:these are not the reason for the gap in performance to RedBull as it looks.The real reason for their position in the pecking order is to be found in the car itself which does not produce downforcw of the same quality as their competitors ,or in other words for the drag they produce they just don´t have the downforce ,and stable downforce.

We can assume they now have solved all the thermal issues they have experienced at the start of the year ,but still the car is a second per lap slow on ultimate speed.(If REDBull is throwing away 8 tenths of ultimate speed for race speed the same has to be true for Mercedes so the gap is what it is)...possibly it is less than this as surely one of the two drivers would gamble and go for a qualy setup too find himself at the sharp end of the grid?

The car is not conservative per se: hydraulic suspension interconnection ,short wheelbase,radiator layout ,exhaust positioning ..the tech team have failed to concentrate on new technical solutions that could make the difference.
Without a doubt ,Mercedes was a complete fail in exhaust development over winter.
They spend a lot of time developing their own system and now in the second half of the year copied the RB style immediatly could better all their original work ..so the development direction decided right at the start was wrong -see Renault falling into the same trap toying their own idea...when Mclaren did the reasonable thing ,droppped the octopus like a hot potato and concentrated on the right technical solution.

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spadeflush
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Joined: 21 Feb 2011, 12:28
Location: United States

Re: Mercedes GP W02

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Agree about the exhausts. I was at turn 4 at the Indian GP. The W02's exhaust was making the least amount of noise among the Red Bulls, McLarens, Ferraris and the Renaults. This must've been written a million times over here but I experienced it for the 1st time as it was my first live race.
Forza Michael. Forza Jules

Crucial_Xtreme
Crucial_Xtreme
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Re: Mercedes GP W02

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spadeflush wrote:Agree about the exhausts. I was at turn 4 at the Indian GP. The W02's exhaust was making the least amount of noise among the Red Bulls, McLarens, Ferraris and the Renaults. This must've been written a million times over here but I experienced it for the 1st time as it was my first live race.
Really? I've seen some videos in another part of the forum and the Ferrari was clearly not remotely close to the others with their maps & overrun. They haven't really pursued that specific development this year. Guess MGP hasn't either.

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=10852

marcush.
marcush.
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Joined: 09 Mar 2004, 16:55

Re: Mercedes GP W02

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the worst thing Mercedes coúld do is trying to copy the RB7 .They could as well copy Mp4-26 then as it is similar in performance and MGP sure has a lot more info about that car...
Lookingh at average laptimes it is really still a hopeless situation for Mercedes as they lose more than a full second per lap compared to RB and Mclaren in the race .Considering that Vettel ,Webber and Button all had no new softs and still were over a second per lap quicker when Schumacher and Rosberg had brandnew tyres for their second stint should be alarming...

Crucial_Xtreme
Crucial_Xtreme
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Re: Mercedes GP W02

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marcush. wrote:the worst thing Mercedes coúld do is trying to copy the RB7 .They could as well copy Mp4-26 then as it is similar in performance and MGP sure has a lot more info about that car...
Lookingh at average laptimes it is really still a hopeless situation for Mercedes as they lose more than a full second per lap compared to RB and Mclaren in the race .Considering that Vettel ,Webber and Button all had no new softs and still were over a second per lap quicker when Schumacher and Rosberg had brandnew tyres for their second stint should be alarming...
I think Brawn & Haug are too smart for that. And by that I mean trying to copy RBR specifically in a part to part sense. In F1 most teams copy others in more ways than not, whether or not it was from a rivals car this year or 10 years ago.
but I think MGP are innovating themselves. Look at the new design wing with "possible" f-duct type design, or their Innovative Rear Suspension . They have plenty of money and expertise behind them to try and carbon copy other teams. I fully expect MGP to be a top contender in the next year or so.

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JohnsonsEvilTwin
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Re: Mercedes GP W02

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Marcush,

We know why they are over a second a lap slower than red bull.
The car was probably the least optimised car of the top 5 to utilise the ebd.
As such brawn and mercedes knew they were on a hiding to nothing by continuing developent on this concept. Especially since it is also now banned for 2012.

No. My view is there is a renewed optimism at Mercedes for the W03, which will herald a return of a low nose non ebd concept utilising the KERS and Benz V8. Remember, this is not mercedes gp of nov 2010. We have arrived at the point in time now where I feel mercedes gp are ready to make a step forward, however small.
More could have been done.
David Purley

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spadeflush
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Joined: 21 Feb 2011, 12:28
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Re: Mercedes GP W02

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Crucial_Xtreme wrote:
spadeflush wrote:Agree about the exhausts. I was at turn 4 at the Indian GP. The W02's exhaust was making the least amount of noise among the Red Bulls, McLarens, Ferraris and the Renaults. This must've been written a million times over here but I experienced it for the 1st time as it was my first live race.
Really? I've seen some videos in another part of the forum and the Ferrari was clearly not remotely close to the others with their maps & overrun. They haven't really pursued that specific development this year. Guess MGP hasn't either.

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=10852
Well maybe its a bit better than Ferrari's. Will post some videos soon
Forza Michael. Forza Jules

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raymondu999
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Joined: 04 Feb 2010, 07:31

Re: Mercedes GP W02

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Maybe that's a setup change MGP have made to aid their race pace (less fuel effect weighing them down)
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marcush.
marcush.
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Joined: 09 Mar 2004, 16:55

Re: Mercedes GP W02

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All teams optimise for race pace as they have to -they need the tyres to survive a long stint at good pace.
The niggling bit is MGPs race speed on sticker option tyres is still a lot worse than Mclarens,RedBulls and Ferraris on used ones...much more than a second per lap
So the true gap is more like 1.5 seconds today and it is very clear that Mercedes GP is not sacrificing any more than the other teams for race pace as the gap is as it is.More than a second.
Even Haug is talking about how they managed to keep the gap ...the idea they are closing in is just not true .
As for the Exhaust development as I said..neither Ferrari nor Mclaren had the right technical solution in winter testing .It went as far as everyone wrote off Mclaren ,remember? Some people here went as far as stating:Mclaren was already building a new car as the new Sidepod layout was not going to work ever...Still Button will beat the second unbeatable RedBull and in all possibility Alonso will do the same..So clearly the exhaust solution employed by RedBull worked on all cars even when Renault tried the setup they instantly matched their far developped FEE ...only Allison and his men know why they did not switch to the more promising solution after that test...

bajan snyper
bajan snyper
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Joined: 31 Mar 2011, 20:54

Re: Mercedes GP W02

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marcush. wrote:All teams optimise for race pace as they have to -they need the tyres to survive a long stint at good pace.
The niggling bit is MGPs race speed on sticker option tyres is still a lot worse than Mclarens,RedBulls and Ferraris on used ones...much more than a second per lap
So the true gap is more like 1.5 seconds today and it is very clear that Mercedes GP is not sacrificing any more than the other teams for race pace as the gap is as it is.More than a second.
Even Haug is talking about how they managed to keep the gap ...the idea they are closing in is just not true .
As for the Exhaust development as I said..neither Ferrari nor Mclaren had the right technical solution in winter testing .It went as far as everyone wrote off Mclaren ,remember? Some people here went as far as stating:Mclaren was already building a new car as the new Sidepod layout was not going to work ever...Still Button will beat the second unbeatable RedBull and in all possibility Alonso will do the same..So clearly the exhaust solution employed by RedBull worked on all cars even when Renault tried the setup they instantly matched their far developped FEE ...only Allison and his men know why they did not switch to the more promising solution after that test...
The thing is about Renault is that if you have a system not working as efficient as the other teams and you can work on getting downforce on the car in different areas. If they bring the same car in 2012 the exhaust rule won't hamper them as much due to not having EBD from the get go plus you will know where to pull df from.

Crucial_Xtreme
Crucial_Xtreme
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Joined: 16 Oct 2011, 00:13
Location: Charlotte

Re: Mercedes GP W02

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spadeflush wrote:
Crucial_Xtreme wrote:
spadeflush wrote:Agree about the exhausts. I was at turn 4 at the Indian GP. The W02's exhaust was making the least amount of noise among the Red Bulls, McLarens, Ferraris and the Renaults. This must've been written a million times over here but I experienced it for the 1st time as it was my first live race.
Really? I've seen some videos in another part of the forum and the Ferrari was clearly not remotely close to the others with their maps & overrun. They haven't really pursued that specific development this year. Guess MGP hasn't either.

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=10852
Well maybe its a bit better than Ferrari's. Will post some videos soon
Sounds good! I'd like to see some. :D

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yener
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Joined: 09 May 2011, 00:00

Re: Mercedes GP W02

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"Life is about passions - Thank you for sharing mine" MSC

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PlatinumZealot
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Joined: 12 Jun 2008, 03:45

Re: Mercedes GP W02

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Page 300! =D>
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Racing Green in 2028

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yener
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Joined: 09 May 2011, 00:00

Re: Mercedes GP W02

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Here we can see a new front wing. Testing the new wing for next years car?

EDIT: Sorry, still the old wing.

Image
Last edited by yener on 11 Nov 2011, 03:13, edited 1 time in total.
"Life is about passions - Thank you for sharing mine" MSC

elf341
elf341
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Joined: 10 Aug 2011, 19:31

Re: Mercedes GP W02

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doesn't look new to me, looks like the same front wing back on page 284