Ross Brawn leaves Mercedes

[FoxHound]

Using Brawn as an example, why couldn't he replicate his success at Ferrari with Mercedes?
Byrne.

What did Patrick head or Williams achieve once Newey upped sticks to McLaren?
From title winners in 1997 to also rans in 1998 to midfield fillers in 1999. Which incidentally McLaren won in 1998 to 1999.

[Richard]

Success needs team+car+driver. Remove one of those and the results drop.

So getting back to topic - Where could Brawn go?

[FoxHound]

Brawn is a shoe-in for McLaren.

[xpensive]

Brawn is a shoe-in for McLaren.

Right, can't see why they don't ask David Beckham to drive while they're at it?

[turbof1]

Brawn is more of a team manager then a real engineer, putting him on level with Bouillier, Whitmarsh and Domenicali concerning his function. None of all of those seem to be leaving, so if he leaves at mercedes but stays in f1, you'll probably be looking for him at lower teams: marussia, caterham, perhaps force india.

Personally, I don't see him doing that all and just leaving F1, retiring, enjoying life.

[FoxHound]

Brawn is a shoe-in for McLaren.

Right, can't see why they don't ask David Beckham to drive while they're at it?

Fit's in with the Gillette sponsorship though right?

[Faustino]

This season has very much been a case of Mercedes pricing McLaren out of being the clear second best team.

Having to remove Paddy Lowe from the development of the MP4-28 before he actually left for Mercedes is why they are so far off the pace this year. I know they promoted from within but Lowe has hardly been replaced yet. Until they bring someone in who has the talent to give Prodromou something to work with, his joining the team is quite irrelevant.

I can see Ross Brawn going back to Ferrari, they need him right now, even if it's just a short term 2 or 3 year deal.

The big question for Merc is whether they have the right aero guy in Elliot? Everything else is in place for them.

[Pierce89]

This season has very much been a case of Mercedes pricing McLaren out of being the clear second best team.

Having to remove Paddy Lowe from the development of the MP4-28 before he actually left for Mercedes is why they are so far off the pace this year. I know they promoted from within but Lowe has hardly been replaced yet. Until they bring someone in who has the talent to give Prodromou something to work with, his joining the team is quite irrelevant.

I can see Ross Brawn going back to Ferrari, they need him right now, even if it's just a short term 2 or 3 year deal.

The big question for Merc is whether they have the right aero guy in Elliot? Everything else is in place for them.

When was Mclaren a clear second best team? and, are you inferring that Merc are a clear second best team now? On we go... So, Paddy Lowe designed the abortion that is the 28, but his leaving is what put them behind? Prodromu... I think its become quite clear he's one of the best aero minds in F1. Newey draws up a great concept, but now every team uses the that same philosophy and they're all behind. Does Newey develop the car and work on fine geometry and interactions? No! Prodromu does, and he is brilliant to say that he won't be an immediate help is ridiculous.

Next year and 2015 will be a four team fight maybe five if Lotus manages to hang around the front again.

FORZA FERRARI!!!

[lebesset]

Success needs team+car+driver. Remove one of those and the results drop.

So getting back to topic - Where could Brawn go?

frankly , only williams looks a reasonable slot , and for a number of reasons
frank is the wrong side of 70 , you can't go on for ever ; he would like claire to succeed him , but history demonstrates how difficult it is for someone to take over a company from dad !
but if frank retired , ross replaced him and claire stayed where she is for perhaps 3 years ? she would learn a lot from ross and be far better able to take over at that point

a certain symmetry perhaps , he started there as a machinist and would finish his career at the top

ok , williams perhaps lack the budget to get back to the very top , but ross has the ability and would attract enough budget to get them away from the dark place where they currently reside ...enough of a challenge to attract him I would have thought

[Pup]

Brawn wasn't able to attract sponsorship to his own team even when they were in the midst of winning a championship. That's not his strong point, and if it weren't for McLaren being McLaren, I doubt Merc would have given him a second look. There was a serious alignment of stars that made that season what it was. Pretty amazing, really. On the other hand, I've been amazed at Sir Frank's ability to land whales when it's obvious that his team is going nowhere. Perhaps the two together could work magic, but it's a long shot.

The thing about Williams these days is that its success is 100% nostalgia. They don't have the factory, people, money, etc. to make a run for the title, regardless of who's in charge. It would take years for anyone to turn it around - how many did it take Newey at RB, with an unlimited budget to work with?

And since Williams can't afford the sort of salary their competitors will offer Brawn, the only thing that would attract Brawn to Williams, imo, would be a substantial ownership stake. Nothing as puny as what Wolf held. I think Sir Frank would have to give up half the team to Brawn just to get him to consider the job.

As a said earlier, I think Brawn is the sort who enjoys a challenge, but he's no masochist. Lost causes are not his thing. He's more the type to find a parade and get in front of it. That is, he'd look for a team on the rise. IMO, that's McLaren, but as I've said, I think they'd have to change their structure to make him happy. Plus I don't know how he gets on with Dennis - the two were bitter rivals for a long time.

[GitanesBlondes]

If Brawn goes anywhere new, I would keep an eye out for whether or not Flavio comes back somewhere.

I honestly would be pushing for Domenicali to get sacked at Ferrari, and for Briatore/Brawn to be brought in. With them plus Byrne, you've got the Benetton years partially back. Briatore would get Maranello up and running in no time flat.

[Richard]

....

Good point about Brawn GP. I couldn’t imagine someone like Eddie Jordon having such a blank car!

The teams who need people (Williams or FI) need someone like Eddie Jordon or Peter Sauber. Completely different characters but both thrive in smaller teams.

Brawn’s used to working in large corporate environments (Ferrari, Honda, Merc). The two teams with that scale don’t have a vacancy, even if they did I’d imagine they’d go for a bright new star rather than try to retread the past.

[Faustino]

This season has very much been a case of Mercedes pricing McLaren out of being the clear second best team.

Having to remove Paddy Lowe from the development of the MP4-28 before he actually left for Mercedes is why they are so far off the pace this year. I know they promoted from within but Lowe has hardly been replaced yet. Until they bring someone in who has the talent to give Prodromou something to work with, his joining the team is quite irrelevant.

I can see Ross Brawn going back to Ferrari, they need him right now, even if it's just a short term 2 or 3 year deal.

The big question for Merc is whether they have the right aero guy in Elliot? Everything else is in place for them.

When was Mclaren a clear second best team? and, are you inferring that Merc are a clear second best team now? On we go... So, Paddy Lowe designed the abortion that is the 28, but his leaving is what put them behind? Prodromu... I think its become quite clear he's one of the best aero minds in F1. Newey draws up a great concept, but now every team uses the that same philosophy and they're all behind. Does Newey develop the car and work on fine geometry and interactions? No! Prodromu does, and he is brilliant to say that he won't be an immediate help is ridiculous.

Next year and 2015 will be a four team fight maybe five if Lotus manages to hang around the front again.

FORZA FERRARI!!!

McLaren in 2012 were pretty much the second quickest team, and quickest at stages. If it weren't for Alonso, Ferrari wouldn't have had a sniff at the championship that year.

My point was that Paddy Lowe would have been taken off development of this years car at a very early stage. So it's essentially a half complete job. Who knows what they could have achieved if Mercedes did not poach him. Tim Goss was left with a rough sketch of someone else's idea so what could really have been expected of him this year?

Unless McLaren bring someone new in, next years car will be Tim Goss' concept so time will tell if he has the talent and vision to deliver something.

And i am in no way inferring that Merc are the second fastest team, my point is that by poaching Lowe they have opened up that chance for 3 teams (Ferrari, Merc, Lotus) and have relegated McLaren to Sauber/Force India's level.

[Richard]

McLaren in 2012 were pretty much the second quickest team, and quickest at stages. If it weren't for Alonso, Ferrari wouldn't have had a sniff at the championship that year.

So would that infer they had one of the best drivers and one of the quickest cars but lacked the organisation to exploit it?

[Faustino]

McLaren in 2012 were pretty much the second quickest team, and quickest at stages. If it weren't for Alonso, Ferrari wouldn't have had a sniff at the championship that year.

So would that infer they had one of the best drivers and one of the quickest cars but lacked the organisation to exploit it?

No, it inferred that Red Bull had Adrian Newey.