Amateur racing culture

[RacingEngineering]

alexx_88, thanks. I hope 200BHP version will have the same grip. I will test this car.

Hollus, i wrote here about EV. It might work.

andylaurence, thanks. I ve used income tax(from the revenue)

[bdr529]

RacingEngineering: don't come on a Technical forum, predominantly filled with engineers and not expect them to pick up their calculators and start doing math equations right of the bat.

Take a little advice from someone who already has a Degree in Marketing and 30+ years work experience
If your not getting the answers you want. Then your not asking the right questions

You came asking for input, and you are getting plenty of it. And you are getting it for free. Why so defensive?

I was thinking more like inconsiderate little $**!, after reading this

RacingEngineering:
To sum up - Don't blame, offer solutions.

Here's a solution get of your ass and go get a job at a track day rental place, then you'll see how it works from the inside

[RacingEngineering]

It is a general chat part where i can ask whayever i want. Moreover, my question was claimed by administrators of this website.

Hollus, read the previous message and you will understand why so defensive. Because of the offence

[RacingEngineering]

RacingEngineering: don't come on a Technical forum, predominantly filled with engineers and not expect them to pick up their calculators and start doing math equations right of the bat.

Take a little advice from someone who already has a Degree in Marketing and 30+ years work experience
If your not getting the answers you want. Then your not asking the right questions

You came asking for input, and you are getting plenty of it. And you are getting it for free. Why so defensive?

I was thinking more like inconsiderate little $**!, after reading this

RacingEngineering:
To sum up - Don't blame, offer solutions.

Here's a solution get of your ass and go get a job at a track day rental place, then you'll see how it works from the inside

I read your message again. What are you talking about? By writing - ''offer solutions,dont blame'' i have not meant anth bad. And if you would read all my comments, you could see how i show my gratitude to each respondent. Nothing offencive. I just mean that i how almost no experience and need in information(solutions), not in criticism. But what i saw here - was just a mockery of people because of the lack of my experience.

[Richard]

I think being immersed in entrepeurial academia has lead you to overuse phrases such as "nothing is impossible" and to dismiss people who run their own businesses as "not entrepreneurial". That does come across as arrogant, especially on a forum with an engineering background. We must be thankful you haven't said you are giving this 110%

[RacingEngineering]

I still think that nothing is impossible if you can find appropriate solutions. And if someone thinks it is impossible, it means that this person has no entrepreneurial spirit. Running your own business means that you are a businessman, not an entrepreneur. Different things, you know. Also, if you read the rest of messages, you could notice a lot of solutions that were provided, proving that nothing is impossible. I am not arrogant, i just prove that it is not impossible even from the technical point of view, so, by logic, there is no reason for me to listen to people who dismiss the opportunity of creating something based on my idea. Especially, considering that calculations were not that horrific and also considering that i have received good ideas from respondents for myself.

[Moose]

I still think that nothing is impossible if you can find appropriate solutions.

Sure, it's absolutely possible to run a track day for £20-40 a day, if you find the right solutions. Those solutions are going to involve a solution to the problem that cars consume a lot of (costly) fuel, a lot of (costly) tires, a lot of (costly) brakes, and that people manning the track and paddock expect to be paid.

If you can present solutions to those problems, then you've probably got a viable business model. But until then, you're likely to be in trouble.

Aside - if you can present solutions to those problems, then you will probably become pretty rich through other means than running track days

[Facts Only]

I want to know where the 20 (identical or very nearly) MK2 Golf GTi's are going to come from and how they are going to do 8 hours a day on track being driven by people who will only pay £25-£40 for the pleasure without being completely and utterly ruined after the first week.

[RacingEngineering]

Facts Only, you are stuck with Golf. I wrote nearly 5-10 times that i need to find solutions,meaning that 20 Golf MK2 is not the only option. That was just an example to show my vision. It does not mean that i am merely going to buy Golfs and merely 20 cars....... As Moose just wrote, it is important to find solutions to reduce technical,managerial and marketing costs. Until then, i cant do anything. But if i could find proper chassis,tires,drive type,braking system an so on, this idea could work. It is not impossible.

[Richard]

I am not arrogant .... there is no reason for me to listen to people who dismiss the opportunity of creating something based on my idea.

Do you realise what you just did there?

I'm sorry to say that endlessly repeating that "nothing is impossible" like Canute does not mean you can deny reality.

[RacingEngineering]

And that is the difference between people. Some people give up and end with watching tv after hard work that they hate. But some people avoid criticism cause they can see the reality from different aspects. Why not to create a light chassis which will reduce fuel costs? Why not to create a tires that will last longer? Why not to use an electric drive that will reduce your costs thrice? Isn't it real? Do you really think that it is absolutely unreal to create such car or modify a car till this level?

[SectorOne]

Why not to create a light chassis which will reduce fuel costs? Why not to create a tires that will last longer? Why not to use an electric drive that will reduce your costs thrice? Isn't it real? Do you really think that it is absolutely unreal to create such car or modify a car till this level?

Have you even for a second thought about how much money you need to get 30 custom built chassis with electric drives?
When you go to the bank and tell them about this plan, how much money you need for 30 chassis and 30 electric drives and then tell them how much you will earn per month this will be their reaction.

[RacingEngineering]

First of all, why 30? i have never mentioned 30 anywhere in this thread...Second, for such projects you need in investors as the project is risky and they like to work with risky projects.More risk=more money....Third, banks give a loan with maximum 25000 GBP,that is not enough,obviously.......Forth, why do you go into details when we just talk about the technical aspects?......Fifth, we are exactly thinking on reducing costs so we will not be working with costly projects.This is the main part of my idea-reducing costs.And you think that i will go for a costly project? So what will be the logic here to provide low price services for customers? If any solution will cost a lot, we will not go for it and will never meet such Steve Carell reaction.So dont worry

[Miguel]

I still think that nothing is impossible if you can find appropriate solutions. And if someone thinks it is impossible, it means that this person has no entrepreneurial spirit.

If there are solutions, your problem is by definition possible. I wish you good luck trying to defeat thermodynamics on the long run, on a macroscopic scale.

On a similar note, what's the fuel flow of a modern 2.0l inline 4 engine, when driven hard? Economy gasoline engines seem to use around 6l/100km on the superduperideal economy runs, which are, AFAIK, done at 80km/h. That gives you an absolute minimum of 5l/h, so I guess any sort of sporty driving will use no less than 20l/h. Possibly more. Does anybody wiser have a better estimate [1]? Never mind, ~20l/h represents ~£25/h with the average Edinburgh prices.

As someone said before, if you can design a car that will go faster on much less fuel, you should patent the process or apply for a job at a hybrid-friendly manufacturer. Definitely more money than anything around ~£10/hour.

And since now we have some numbers, calling my post idiotic will require debating those as well. I'm ready to learn new stuff!

[1] I guess I could estimate how much fuel a car uses when being raced assuming an efficiency of say 20%, with the energy density of gasoline, assuming 180hp are used for 60% of the lap. Numbers out of my cold bottom.

[SectorOne]

First of all, why 30? i have never mentioned 30...

How are you going to make a profit? Even if you make one chassis and one electric engine we are still talking about crazy money. Not even including the spare parts needed for both.

Second, for such projects you need in investors as the project is risky and they like to work with risky projects.....

Oh yea totally forgot, that´s exactly what they like. Spending their hard earned money on a guy that has done less research then people in this thread.

Even if you were to find one, how much of your company do you think he will demand?

Third, banks give a loan with maximum 25000 GBP,that is not enough......

You sure about that? In my country i don´t think there´s a roof as long as the bank like your idea and that you put up your own money which would be a certain percentage of the total loan showing them you are actually serious about it.

Forth, why do you go into details when we just talk about the technical aspects?......

Because you need to go into details.

Fifth, we are exactly thinking on reducing costs so we will not be working with costly projects.If any solution will cost a lot, we will not go for it and will never meet such Steve Carell reaction.So dont worry

..Right so that´s why you´re asking about custom built chassis and buying electric drives.

Honestly, good luck with this whole thing, you´re definitely gonna need it looking at this thread.