Alpine A522 Speculation Thread

[diffuser]

The only source we had was Prost, but he just said like Binotto some time ago that those whole new engines are not fully reliable for now.

Which make sense. They need to have a powerful engine, for reliability they can do upgrade after

There was an article That asked Luca de Meo if Alpine had recovered the power lost from the use of the E10 fuel and he said yes. I can't find it though.

[RedNEO]

That would be really good news.

[Jambier]

The only source we had was Prost, but he just said like Binotto some time ago that those whole new engines are not fully reliable for now.

Which make sense. They need to have a powerful engine, for reliability they can do upgrade after

There was an article That asked Luca de Meo if Alpine had recovered the power lost from the use of the E10 fuel and he said yes. I can't find it though.

Yep, that's the minimum for them. Mercedes already have and will have a very powerfull engine, so Alpine needs to gain at least 20Hp more than last year

[Blackout]

The only source we had was Prost, but he just said like Binotto some time ago that those whole new engines are not fully reliable for now.

Which make sense. They need to have a powerful engine, for reliability they can do upgrade after

There was an article That asked Luca de Meo if Alpine had recovered the power lost from the use of the E10 fuel and he said yes. I can't find it though.

Yep, that's the minimum for them. Mercedes already have and will have a very powerfull engine, so Alpine needs to gain at least 20Hp more than last year

Prost said the Pu was 35hp behind the best in 2021. 35 is not that big a deficit for an almost 3 years old PU. But to catch the best PU, Renault must obviously find much more than 35hp, because the others wont stand still. And knowing that Viry has gained 30hp on average every year between 2014 and 2019, with a 50hp and 60hp spike in 2016 and 2019, I think Renault can do it with this fully new and much more efficient PU that aims to optimise every area of an older PU that barely changed in 3 seasons, and find 35 +35 hp (= 190hp)

[Blackout]

Rossi confirms several things that we suspected about RE22.
Good news.

"The engine has been redesigned entirely," Rossi said. "The split turbo is one element. We will [also] make it more compact, which enables us to move it closer to the driver and therefore the centre of gravity of the car.
"It's lighter. It's capable of operating in a much wider range of conditions, temperature and pressure.
"So it's really like a game-changer for us and it's going to, I hope, enable us to catch up and close the gap to the front of the queue [on engine performance]."
The split-turbo design is difficult to achieve because it requires a long connecting rod between the turbo and compressor that runs across the top of the engine and spins at up to 125,000rpm.
Former Alpine non-executive chairman Alain Prost said when he split with the team last month that the engine was having reliability problems on the test bed.
Rossi said the failures were caused by his asking the engine department to push as hard as possible for maximum performance. He said the design was now running reliably in time for the start of pre-season testing next week.
Rossi said: "I told the team: 'You push the envelope far. I don't care. I'd rather have to dial down the performance, but know that I've reached a peak of the performance I can get and then be reliable, than just feel comfortable with a reliable engine that was not delivering the performance.' Which, by the way, was the approach of the past.
"The good news is we've been doing thousands of kilometres with this new power-unit in the last few weeks, and it went just fine.
"So knock on wood it seems we have fixed that."

https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/60414614

[toraabe]

Couldn't be better. I really hope the guys in Viry and Enstone are being rewarded this year with wins and podiums.

[RedNEO]

[Redragon]

His cap unveils the colours of the car. Lighter blue with light pink

[RedNEO]

His cap unveils the colours of the car. Lighter blue with light pink

It looks nice I want that cap

[Kamel]

To be honest I am worried about A522 engine. Even though that was not a credible insider, before last year, there were also rumors about the wrong concept of the car, in particular the air intake, and they were confirmed. Fernando said its fast but without much emotions, of course i won't believe this

[Blackout]

This Rossi comment is intriguing: "The engine has been redesigned entirely," Rossi said. "The split turbo is one element. We will [also] make it more compact, which enables us to move it closer to the driver and therefore the centre of gravity of the car."
 
A split-turbo à la Mercedes or Honda would, on the contrary, will push the engine back, because when you mount the engine on the monocoque, the compressor and its air ducts and the oil tank will obviously need to be inserted in a recess in the rear bulkhead of the monocoque, and a split-turbo layout will need a bigger recess than a classic Renault layout like in the picture. And that bigger recess will take volume from the fuel tank, so you'll need a virtually bigger fuel tank, and since teams generally prefer to lengthen their fuel tank instead of widening them or making them taller, that would push the engine rearwards...
IMO that's the only advantage of the Renault layout over the split one, the front of the V6 is less crowded and more plain, so it can be pushed forward. That's what Mclaren's technical director said about it in 2018.
 
But the good thing is that the mandatory weight distribution is more rear-biased this year. So pushing the engine a little back shouldn't be a big problem.
 
Unless 
- they have inserted the compressor inside the V, like Honda in 2015-2017...
- made the fuel tank wider
- made the battery (which also need its own recess under the fuel tank) smaller to regain some lost volume...
 
The Renault ES didnt change much shape/size-wise between 2014 and 2018 at least. Maybe the 2022 one is smaller...
 
Or maybe Rossi is just talking about the turbo and its CoG. With a split turbo, the compressor will obviously be closer to the centre of the car, while the turbine will be closer to the engine and closer to the CoG of the car  :drunk:
 

[Blackout]

2/2

[Blackout]

To be honest I am worried about A522 engine. Even though that was not a credible insider, before last year, there were also rumors about the wrong concept of the car, in particular the air intake, and they were confirmed. Fernando said its fast but without much emotions, of course i won't believe this

If you're talking about the A521 ""concept"", forget that car. It's not representative. That car was a zombie car that shouldnt have existed. It was a 3-years old chassis that the team had to keep alive for too long with patched up, last mlinuter and temporary bricolage and compromises. The cooling is a good example.

[Kamel]

To be honest I am worried about A522 engine. Even though that was not a credible insider, before last year, there were also rumors about the wrong concept of the car, in particular the air intake, and they were confirmed. Fernando said its fast but without much emotions, of course i won't believe this

If you're talking about the A521 ""concept"", forget that car. It's not representative. That car was a zombie car that shouldnt have existed. It was a 3-years old chassis that the team had to keep alive for too long with compromises and bricolage.

I mean that rumors can be true, but we'll see.
Also I don't think that recent structured changes are at suitable time, just before a that very season

[Jolle]

This Rossi comment is intriguing: "The engine has been redesigned entirely," Rossi said. "The split turbo is one element. We will [also] make it more compact, which enables us to move it closer to the driver and therefore the centre of gravity of the car."
 
A split-turbo à la Mercedes or Honda would, on the contrary, will push the engine back, because when you mount the engine on the monocoque, the compressor and its air ducts and the oil tank will obviously need to be inserted in a recess in the rear bulkhead of the monocoque, and a split-turbo layout will need a bigger recess than a classic Renault layout like in the picture. And that bigger recess will take volume from the fuel tank, so you'll need a virtually bigger fuel tank, and since teams generally prefer to lengthen their fuel tank instead of widening them or making them taller, that would push the engine rearwards...
IMO that's the only advantage of the Renault layout over the split one, the front of the V6 is less crowded and more plain, so it can be pushed forward. That's what Mclaren's technical director said about it in 2018.
 
But the good thing is that the mandatory weight distribution is more rear-biased this year. So pushing the engine a little back shouldn't be a big problem.
 
Unless 
- they have inserted the compressor inside the V, like Honda in 2015-2017...
- made the fuel tank wider
- made the battery (which also need its own recess under the fuel tank) smaller to regain some lost volume...
 
The Renault ES didnt change much shape/size-wise between 2014 and 2018 at least. Maybe the 2022 one is smaller...
 
Or maybe Rossi is just talking about the turbo and its CoG. With a split turbo, the compressor will obviously be closer to the centre of the car, while the turbine will be closer to the engine and closer to the CoG of the car  :drunk:
 

Well… if the mounting points are mandatory, with a split turbo they are able to move mass forward, with only a small extra “cutouts” of the rear bulkhead.
Mercedes has its oil tank wrapped around the compressor, in such a way that it only takes a few litres of volume extra. It’s a compromise of course, that volume has to go somewhere, but when the car has to be fastest of the weekend, in qualifying, there is no downside.