Ferrari’s Board of Directors, chaired by Luca di Montezemolo, today analysed the first quarter results for 2009. Despite the current international economic climate, which has hit the automotive sector in particular, Ferrari’s figures were in line with the record levels reached in 2008.
Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
Yeah ... I went to Spa in 2005 & it really is in the arse end of nowhere. No hotels nearby, no real infrastructure, tiny country lanes leading to the circuit and MASSIVE traffic jams leading out (well, at least when I went).
A reputation for raining heavily doesn't help either!
My trip to Spa coincided with a weekend of the heaviest thunderstorms that Belgium had seen in a decade. I have very vivid memories of returning to Brussels after qualifying, going to find a restaurant & then having to wade back to the hotel whilst walking shin deep in water.
Still, for what it is worth, it was an absolutely cracking race & the atmosphere there is superb. You get a sensation from the engines reverberating in the mountains that is completely unlike anything you get at a flatter circuit such as Silverstone.
Spa is a magical place for me : I had wanted to go there since I was 7 years old & waited 18 years for the privilege ...
Give me somewhere with that kind of history and character over a mass-produced, soulless, identikit Tilke track ANY DAY.
**EDIT**
I guess that I should say something on topic.
I won't pretend that I'm a Ferrari fan, because that would be an utter lie.
Ferrari (or "those damned red cars", as I tend to call them) had been Max & Bernie's favourite children for WAY too long & IMHO Ferrari have gotten used to throwing their weight around like spoiled kids whenever things didn't seem to be going their way.
The schism that has opened up between Ferrari, the FIA and FOM in the advent of FOTA has pleased me no end, particularly since Bernie opened up their financial arrangements over the winter : Reading that Bernie had announced he'd "bought Ferrari's loyalty" was music to my ears, even if it was F1's worst kept secret!
When Bernie brokered the transfer of Schumi (or "that damned German", as I tend to call him) over to Ferrari, he went on record to say that he wanted to create "an era of Ferrari", which was exactly what he got ... Now, one thing that all eras have in common is that THEY END & this one will be no different. I'd be sorry for the sport & for the historic implications, just as I was sad to see the demise of other former championship winning teams such as Lotus, Tyrell and Brabham ...
The only reason why I'd miss Ferrari on a personal level would be the same reason why I missed having that damned German on track : Every good pantomime needs a villain to boo.
"Change is inevitable, except from a vending machine ..."
I think Ferrari needs Formula 1 today more than ever.
Twenty years ago Ferrari was the only real choice if you wanted a genuinely good and driveable supercar. Porsche was perhaps almost there with the 911 turbo. Other supercars were really bad wanna-be's with bad vehicle dynamics and worse reliability. I give Ferrari a huge amount of credit for making street cars from the 1950's - 1980's with real world performance that was simply not available anywhere else.
A 2009 Ferrari is much improved over a 1989 Ferrari, but the competition has improved much more. Now there are a couple dozen established companies (as opposed to tuners or kit-cars) that offer genuine supercars. The current generation of street legal supercars is so crazy fast that it's not really possible for Ferrari to be clearly superior when it comes to speed or any other functional attribute.
As a result Ferrari has, perhaps reluctantly, stopped competing with other supercars in terms of objective performance and turned their cars into fairly raw and abstract status symbols that also happen to have the functional performance offered by the other two dozen supercar makers. I know Ferrari has always had a special image but now this image defines Ferrari instead of the other way around.
What is the fundamental thing that allows Ferrari to separate themselves on image? The Formula 1 team!!! The tradition and recent success of the F1 team gives them cache and credibility that is untouchable. Any other car company that tries to match Ferrari's Formula 1 image is immediately reduced to wanna-be status again. LeMans is special, Indy will always be an event, but nothing compares to the brand credibility of being a consistent championship winner at the pinnacle of motorsport in the Formula 1 World Championship.
If Ferrari stops doing Formula 1 they will simply become another supercar company competing with Nissan GTR's. Not right away, and not quite that bad, but I think Ferrari knows it's true and it scares them.
Frank Williams recently said something simple to the effect of "Of course we're going to enter the F1 championship next year. We race. What else can we do?" If Ferrari stopped bluffing they would say "Of course we're entering the F1 championship next year. We sell image. What else can we do?"
If you've made it this far thanks for reading my mini-essay.
I can't tell you how many times I've seen people wearing Ferrari gear and gone to strike up a conversation about F1 and gotten a blank stare. It's probably just a phenomenon in the states and in my age group, but from what I can tell the people who lust after Ferraris want them because (1) they're fast, (2) they're stunningly beautiful, and (3) they're a status symbol.
I've always harbored a resentment towards Lambos because they don't race them like they do Ferraris and Porsches or the Corvette. And yet, people still want them for the same reasons: they're fast, stylish, and an indicator of income (or debt). Because of this, I don't think Ferrari needs F1 as much as F1 needs Ferrari. A road Ferrari would still be the same if they didn't enter F1, F1 would not.
I think we should look at the bigger picture than just the 2010 rules and hope that Ferrari's threat gives moral support to the other teams to stand up for the ultimate goal of breaking the EvilTwins lock on Formula one.
Because this senseless profiteering and erratic rule changing has gone out of hand, while F1 is losing venues like Silverstone, Montreal, Indianapolis and many more because they have another corrupt dictatorship to milk?
It has become so obvious, that those two has transformed the FIA to a tool for their personal power- and moneyhunger.
Think about it, does MrM seem to give a s**t about any other FIA-sanctioned racing series?
In a perfect world, MrM should take his personal tragedy as an understandable excuse to resign, today, afterwhich the FIA would sanction a new and financially transparent Grand Prix series, organized by the teams themselves.
"I spent most of my money on wine and women...I wasted the rest"
well i believe that Ferrari has a hugs ammount of money and they know that if there's a budget cap, they can't use this money advantage over the others...
I think they said that they would be happier if the cap was increased, but the main thing they want it not to have a 2-tier series..
So long, fair well and good luck Ferrari. So long, fair well and good luck Formula 1
Last edited by ernos5 on 13 May 2009, 07:33, edited 1 time in total.
it is only 2 tier series if some teams insist on spending more than 40 mil... seriously!?!??! spend more money to be less competitive???? This is the most boneheaded move Ferrari would be making all year...
Last edited by Ciro Pabón on 13 May 2009, 15:01, edited 1 time in total.
Reason:Improper wording
I think it'd be a good thing if they and other FOTA members created a proper formula for racing engineering excellence and forgot all about the numbnuts at the FIAsco.
The teams can come up with a way to keep costs to a sensible level, but they are right, the regulations should not include engineering limitations depending on budget levels.
"The rules of governance that have contributed to the development of Formula 1 over the last 25 years have been disregarded, as have the binding contractual obligations between Ferrari and the FIA itself regarding the stability of the regulations."
In light of the developments regarding next year's entry, Ferrari said its president Luca di Montezemolo had been told to look at alternative activities for the racing team
So 2 questions -
1) Will the TV, etc go to this other series?
2) Will the teams that want to enter F1, still want to with this happening? Redbull will go where the TV exposure is going to be the best, as will other manufacture teams.
As a long die hard fan of F1 I will be really sad to see it go to pot, but the way things are going it looks as if it may well do so. So who’s for watching the LM series then
Headlines now that Renault may follow. My question is what can McLaren do? Being previously badboys, if they try anything they get drawn and quartered. I'm sure the inner circle of trust within FOTA have plans for GP1 or something akin, but they really have to have the plans together, so that if 1 goes, they all go.
As people have already pointed out there would be legal consequences if Ferrari would pull out of F1 next year. We do not know the details of the document they signed with FOM and the FIA in 2005 but surely it will have a clause that binds them to the championship with massive punitive damages in a case of failure. If Ferrari's departure produces damages to FOM's business they will be liable for damage claims as well. The same is true of Didi Mateschitz who also signed.
I do not know how Mateschitz/Ferrari plan to refute such claims but contrary to common believe Max Mosley isn't a dumb nut when it comes to contracts. His two tier scheme isn't changing the rules for Ferrari and Red Bull. It just makes it extremely unlikely for them to continue winning. In a court of law it would be likely in my view that Ferrari will be ordered to compensate FOM and pay puninitve damages. They may try to take regress from FIA but as I said I doubt that their contractual rights have actually been violated, as they publicly claim.
BMW, Toyota, Merc and Renault will be extremely carefull in this scenario. Their race team managers cannot afford to expose their corporations to messy law suits. Ferrari and Mateschitz can because they are basically their own men.
It is difficult to make predictions but my money is on Gridwalker's scenario. The two tier scheme is the big bat to force the fat cats into the budget scheme at a much lower level and much quicker than anything they had agreed without it. It is a repeat of the power play FIA/FOM played with GPMA/Ron Dennis. FOTA/Montezemolo have only slightly bigger chances to win this. In the end compromise will be better than damages and defeat.
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best ..............................organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)
Funny really, how my tifosi-sentiments of yesteryear are coming back, much to my surprise I'm beginning to enjoy this.
Remember when Luca was team manager of Ferrai at the age of 26(!) in 1974 and almost made a young Niki Lauda WDC?
Later on he did something nobody thought was even possible, he organised the FIFA World cup (soccer) in 1taly 1990, imagine that as proof of your management talents?
Guess that what I'm trying to say, is that this guy has more than a vague idea of what he is doing, just like Carlos Gohsn and Dieter Mateschitz, to the extent us at F1Technical can only begin to imagine.
"I spent most of my money on wine and women...I wasted the rest"
Wow, I like the attitude towards Ferrari on this forum. Very interesting ideas indeed, what many of you fail to see is F1 from the eyes of an average person not an F1 fan, you see this people, they is what drives F1 this days they smoke, they drink, they have bank accounts and cars so what happens is this every time they tune in and watch a GP that is money right there. And for this people Ferrari is synonym of F1 this is doubly true in countries that don't have their own F1 stars or teams. And if Ferrari the only car they know on the grid(and can tell it apart from all the others as it is the only red car) is no more what will they do, they will either change the channel or watch it to the end especially if they are present at a GP and never come back to F1 again. As for other teams I mean they have said many times they are not happy with F1 management and they threatened to form their own WGPC or something and now when the number one star of F1 is threatening to leave well, what will stop them or at very least RBR, Toyota and Ferrari from doing it. And when Ferrari goes to the new series so will the sponsors and soon all of the other teams will have to follow.
I think that too many people are missing the point here - the budget cap is an issue clearly but what I reckon is the real problem is the two-tier proposal.
A two-tier rulebook has the potential to put a car from a small (relatively!) company in front of all the manufacturer teams who are spending whatever they want and that'll just make them look stupid.
Let's face it equivalency never really works even when there's a genuine will to get it right - who'd trust the FIA to get it right rather than using it for political means (eg to blackmail the manufacturer teams by ensuring that the other teams win until they sign new deals for example)?
A budget cap will not be properly enforceable without spending a lot more money on auditing than they've suggested and it will undoubtedly lead to a situation at some time where a team wins the WC/a race and there is yet another court case to decide whether expense A or B should have been included/was missed and as such the team has overspent.
I guess that my thoughts are that the regulations should be designed to ensure that clever thinking produces fast cars (eg Red Bull's rear suspension/low body) and to that end, maybe a shake up of the regulations each year but with very ristrictive rules in areas where computer iterations will produce faster cars (eg all the winglets that we used to have) but actually require relatively little clever thought - just lots of resource.
Limiting CFD usage as well as track time would also be a good idea I reckon - it doesn't really benefit the teams, fans, etc.
Many of you are doing exactly what Max and Bernie want -- attacking the messenger (Ferrari) rather than the message (that F1 is an obscenely corrupt money machine for a pair of thug/dictators).
If you can't get past your hatred for Ferrai then take into account that their position is echoed by Toyota, RBR, and Renault. Now, can you consider the stance of Renault, RBR, and Toyota?
Enzo Ferrari was a great man. But he was not a good man. -- Phil Hill
