Eco friendly F1 car

[jaxxtec]

Not sure of why there'd be so much opposition, but I'd want to see F1 to remain as the pinnacle of autosport, technology and racing.

All Electric Drive-train, with Batteries have better potential for performance than normal IC engine systems. Better Torque curve (Straight line in fact), Battery technology improving rapidly, Sounds great (Star trek sounding), Better Reliability (fewer moving parts). Better Braking (Reverse polarity of AC motor), In-wheel motors mean better balance.

Potential to rotate each in-wheel motor at different speed at maximum torque. Data Acquisition would be very simple too.

And all the Aero development work can be kept with a few mods.

Actually, If I had a few hundreds of millions lying about I'd be considering building my own series! Futuristic and Clean.

Tho in the new series I would limit the size of the car so that overtaking would be easier.

I'm no Hippie, Coz I know even if this stuff happened, it wouldn't save the world, simply because there are not enough power plants to take on the power to run Electric cars.

[autogyro]

Not sure of why there'd be so much opposition, but I'd want to see F1 to remain as the pinnacle of autosport, technology and racing.

All Electric Drive-train, with Batteries have better potential for performance than normal IC engine systems. Better Torque curve (Straight line in fact), Battery technology improving rapidly, Sounds great (Star trek sounding), Better Reliability (fewer moving parts). Better Braking (Reverse polarity of AC motor), In-wheel motors mean better balance.

Potential to rotate each in-wheel motor at different speed at maximum torque. Data Acquisition would be very simple too.

And all the Aero development work can be kept with a few mods.

Actually, If I had a few hundreds of millions lying about I'd be considering building my own series! Futuristic and Clean.

Tho in the new series I would limit the size of the car so that overtaking would be easier.

I'm no Hippie, Coz I know even if this stuff happened, it wouldn't save the world, simply because there are not enough power plants to take on the power to run Electric cars.

The basic principles contained within your post, including the power generation issue, is contained in a paper I presented before the FIA AEC on the 27th January this year.
I await a considered response.

[jaxxtec]

Not sure of why there'd be so much opposition, but I'd want to see F1 to remain as the pinnacle of autosport, technology and racing.

All Electric Drive-train, with Batteries have better potential for performance than normal IC engine systems. Better Torque curve (Straight line in fact), Battery technology improving rapidly, Sounds great (Star trek sounding), Better Reliability (fewer moving parts). Better Braking (Reverse polarity of AC motor), In-wheel motors mean better balance.

Potential to rotate each in-wheel motor at different speed at maximum torque. Data Acquisition would be very simple too.

And all the Aero development work can be kept with a few mods.

Actually, If I had a few hundreds of millions lying about I'd be considering building my own series! Futuristic and Clean.

Tho in the new series I would limit the size of the car so that overtaking would be easier.

I'm no Hippie, Coz I know even if this stuff happened, it wouldn't save the world, simply because there are not enough power plants to take on the power to run Electric cars.

The basic principles contained within your post, including the power generation issue, is contained in a paper I presented before the FIA AEC on the 27th January this year.
I await a considered response.

I'd approach Al Gore to setup a team =D Imagine the Sponsorship & Media ruckus if that were to happen

[Giblet]

What do we with batteries when they die? We certainly don't recycle them, we for the most part throw them over our shoulder and hope they don't land in a garden we might eat out of later.

I have trouble with the idea of batteries being "eco-friendly" in comparison to fossil fuels. Emissions at the track are such a small thing in relation to the number of people flying over the tracks to get to the races in jets.

Cars are dirty, and how dirty they are is barely a discussion. It's like saying a knife stabbing you in the heart is safer than a bullet shooting you there, because hey, the knife has no emissions.

Cost vs price.

As already noted, the Prius is partly driven by a battery which contains nickel. The nickel is mined and smelted at a plant in Sudbury, Ontario. This plant has caused so much environmental damage to the surrounding environment that NASA has used the ‘dead zone’ around the plant to test moon rovers. The area around the plant is devoid of any life for miles.

The plant is the source of all the nickel found in a Prius’ battery and Toyota purchases 1,000 tons annually. Dubbed the Superstack, the plague-factory has spread sulfur dioxide across northern Ontario, becoming every environmentalist’s nightmare.

“The acid rain around Sudbury was so bad it destroyed all the plants and the soil slid down off the hillside,” said Canadian Greenpeace energy-coordinator David Martin during an interview with Mail, a British-based newspaper.

All of this would be bad enough in and of itself; however, the journey to make a hybrid doesn’t end there. The nickel produced by this disastrous plant is shipped via massive container ship to the largest nickel refinery in Europe. From there, the nickel hops over to China to produce ‘nickel foam.’ From there, it goes to Japan. Finally, the completed batteries are shipped to the United States, finalizing the around-the-world trip required to produce a single Prius battery. Are these not sounding less and less like environmentally sound cars and more like a farce?

Wait, I haven’t even got to the best part yet. When you pool together all the combined energy it takes to drive and build a Toyota Prius, the flagship car of energy fanatics, it takes almost 50 percent more energy than a Hummer - the Prius’s arch nemesis.

Through a study by CNW Marketing called “Dust to Dust,” the total combined energy is taken from all the electrical, fuel, transportation, materials (metal, plastic, etc) and hundreds of other factors over the expected lifetime of a vehicle. The Prius costs an average of $3.25 per mile driven over a lifetime of 100,000 miles - the expected lifespan of the Hybrid.

[Jersey Tom]

Let's restrict F1 engines to 120hp 4-cyls. That will dramatically cut down fuel usage and CO2 emissions.

Also, let's keep all the races in England or continental Europe. Dramatic reduction of travel distances would reduce costs and CO2 emissions by leaps and bounds.

While we're at it, let's be 100% eco-friendly and just get rid of the sport all together.

[Scotracer]

Let's restrict F1 engines to 120hp 4-cyls. That will dramatically cut down fuel usage and CO2 emissions.

Also, let's keep all the races in England or continental Europe. Dramatic reduction of travel distances would reduce costs and CO2 emissions by leaps and bounds.

While we're at it, let's be 100% eco-friendly and just get rid of the sport all together.

Hey, we need some sort of competition...

Let's get the teams to buy iRacing.

[autogyro]

Sorry Giblet
All the things you are listing about batteries can be sorted.
The environmental damage you rightly describe is not because of the technology or the minerals used it is the stupid and greedy way in which the technology is presently structured.
There realy is no comparison anyway, for battery technology at current levels and method to even match the environmental damage done through burning off natural gas at past oil wells.That would take thousands of years.
The difference is that the components used in electric vehicle technology CAN be re cycled, filthy oil and other fossil fuels cannot.
The battery technology is in any case developing faster than almost anything before. There is even 'oxygen' batteries and nano tehcnology is awesome.
We are now in an energy revolution. The first stage of which seems to be vested greed hanging on by its dirty fingernails.
F1 MUST recognise and address these major changes or I am certain that it will not survive.

[jaxxtec]

Giblet,

Your points are valid. However I was only talking about the performance. Not the Eco-friendly part. Electric performance far surpasses the potential IC engine systems which haven't progressed in performance by more than 20% over the last 90 years. (educated guess)

Also if F1 were to employ batteries it would most likely be Lithium-polymer batteries that are rechargeable and has much a much longer life cycle compared to Nickel batteries (about 5 times?) I don't know how the batteries are built, but maybe someone who does know can enlighten us (found in Sony Ericsson mobiles). Problem to be solved is over-heating and catching fire.

If you really want to save the world, Trains and bicycles are the way to go, Increasing Transport efficiency and space utility running off any type of energy. Energy consumed in making any car far surpasses any energy it consumes over its life time, so the argument for more efficient cars is pointless.

Its not the solution isnt there, its the politics that needs to sort it all out.

I'm just excited by the amount of torque each in-wheel motor can generate, and how the chassis can support each independently running motor! Not to mention tyre wear at lift off! One helluva control system too.

[Giblet]

Jaxxtac, I wasn't really responding your post, but to the topic of the thread at hand which is "Eco friendly F1 car"

I just wish moores law was applied to the battery industry as well.

I've also heard of silicon impregnated batteries that have 3 times the energy density (or 1/3rd the size depending on your take).

They say the only way to be less environmentally mean, you must drive whatever car you currently own, regardless of configuration or condition, until the day you die.

Financially, that makes no sense, but we think financially first, convenience second, and everything else a distant third.

This is why people who just don't give a ---, buy things like Swiffers. Like the commercial says, just throw it away!

[Giblet]

Nice subtext there scotracer Williams car from last year is being digitized as we speak.

I also want to mention, that I am odd duck. i love driving, but currently don't own a car. That was mostly due to living in Vancouver, where driving is a mere convenience, not a need per se. Transit got me everywhere there, often faster than those who drive. I also have worked for an environmental group that isn't boat smashing Greenpeace. i love biking, roller blading, and walking, and running.

Now that I am living in a huge sprawl, I will need to purchase a car withing the next 6 months or so. The bus system here for my needs is woefully inadequate, and there is no high speed rail to work into plans that runs regularly.

But at the same time I love F1. It's my guilty eco pleasure. If F1 cars were in the millions on the road, I could not justify them, but much like the occasional rich dinner, I make up for the caloric intake by my regular life.

This discussion begins to go closer to the idea "Does F1 need to be road car relevant?" Yes and no. KERS to me was a great middle ground, and has been discussed in great detail on this site. If KERS was not lopped off at the waist (ankles actually), that tech could trickle down, as in the new Ferrari 599 hybrid.

I want to see flames spitting out of cars and screaming engines. A new series should be made to appease the folks who want their cars whining and running on battery packs instead. F1 can not do both equally well. It will always lean one way or the other.

If teams had motor homes powered by solar and wind, and chose smack their egos and travel together in a giant bus for local races, like most sports teams do, what would be wrong with that? Not like hockey and soccer teams have no glamor. Private jets and v12 Mercs and other showboating at races are unimpressive to the average Joe.

[jaxxtec]

Giblet,

Aah makes sense now.

[rich1701]

I think the best way F1 can contribute to green issues is through sponsorship and market exposure, and introducing a carbon offset policy.

Not the introduction of electric drive trains which I think would ruin the spectacle of motorsport to be frank.

[autogyro]

F1 could be both the pinnacle of technology and leed the world in addressing energy needs and environmental issues.
It could also retain the competition and excitement and definitely the last developments of the ic engine, at least for a while.
What is needed is an FIA with sufficient power and wisdom to develop and establish regulations that will make this ideal happen.
To be fair, it is an awesome task and the new President will be hard pressed to succeed. In this respect, it depends on whether the various factions in F1 and the FIA can be brought to the right focus. At present there is far to much power in the big car companies and vested oil interest and this MUST be overcome.

[Scania]

I dunno how many times i've said this:

F1 DOES NOT NEED TO BE ECO-FRIENDLY!!!!!!

It needs to be fast, loud, exciting, DANGEROUS, in short, it needs to have balls, or it will cease to be F1.

Leave the hippieness at the door, this is auto racing, damnit!

and also some black smoke, some exhaust gas can kill the driver and pit-crew?

[Scania]

F1 need eco, but no need to force it to eco
because F1 means high technology, the technology manufacture only make eco technology today. We only need to release the technology limited of F1, the manufacture use their eco technology to provide speed and performance, so F1 will go eco naturally, just like Diesel in Le Mans.