VW to buy Ferrari?

[ecapox]

Greece is broke as well. Are they going to sell the Acropolis to the Koreans?

This is all blown out of proportion beginning with the moron journalist. It is further being blown out of proportion here because of the few of you that will post in any thread to derail it into Ferrari = evil, they must die.

No where else has this topic garnered so much attention. Only here because of the haters. With that, i suggest we let it die and if those of you that are anti-ferrari want to keep it alive, have fun.

[autogyro]

Looks like Ferrari fans dont like it up em.
There are serious questions to answer on this subject.
Montezemolo is going, Briatorre has visited Marenelo and Italy is broke.

[Agenda_Is_Incorrect]

autogyro, you are rarely correct. Where the hell did you conclude Montezemolo is in the chop? If anything he is very interested in a strong political opportunity to replace Berlusconi, he's not doing a bad job at Ferrari at all and is not on the chop involuntarily. And where people get the conclusion Italy is broke is something only media-washing and bad interpretation can explain. A couple of student protests about the COLLEGE SYSTEM doesn't mean the country is gone.

If Italy was broke, why should Ferrari be it's first victim when it's giving profit!? Holy c****, some people have loads of wet and sick dreams! And why would Fiat sell it if it's a division giving profit? Because a couple of bable talking, "green" washers, annoying doom preachers say so? You should try to sell that autogyro, I'm sure it will be a breakthrough in business models. Talk about denial.

Anyway, ecapox is right. We live on a very tough time were things are not doing well economically and politically and most of the answers to that by the people and the media are not more than moronic. Italy is broke? Sell the profitable Ferrari. Pollution is a problem, the answer is oil, plastic bags and cars. F1 needs to cut costs, transform it into a place where innovation is nearly impossible, make a hugely expensive engine swap to "smaller and cheaper engines". The WRC needs to look "green", change it to a sideways-only show car that doesn't perform but is "light and green". Investments are good, then do it irresponsibly.

Seems like most people are mostly a bipolar switch and mankind has not changed much in many ways. Now it's time to leave that topic to be ruined and die by this very people.

[autogyro]

I did not realy understand any of that.

[747heavy]

The future of the Ferrari and Alfa Romeo luxury brands, which are part of Fiat’s automotive unit, has been the subject of speculation in the past months. At the Paris Motor Show in September, Volkswagen AG supervisory board Chairman Ferdinand Piech told reporters that said he’s monitoring Alfa Romeo in the event Fiat wants to sell. Piech is also interested in acquiring Ferrari, Germany’s Manager Magazin reported last week.

Marchionne and Volkswagen AG CEO Martin Winterkorn said last week in Turin that a sale of Fiat’s Alfa Romeo and Ferrari brands to the German carmaker is only a “dream.”

At the Nov. 12 analyst meeting, Marchionne reiterated that Alfa Romeo is only for sale at “ a very high price,” Morgan Stanley’s Pearson said.

Fiat owns 90 percent of Maranello, Italy-based Ferrari after paying Mubadala Development Co. 122 million euros for its 5 percent stake in the third quarter.

full article here

As it looks like, an IPO, with an diversified shareholder structure, is more likely then an outright sale.
(perhaps similar to the Daimler/Mercedes - Middle East model)


Some other related info´s can be found here:
http://www.fiatgroup.com/en-us/shai/shi ... ne_ENG.pdf

[Marco]

I have not read the whole thread so excuse me if I've missed something.
I used to work for Chrysler and have some contacts in Auburn Hills. The rumoured sale of Ferrari is not about future investment in the brand and costs to Fiat but I believe more about Fiat's desire to increase it's stake in Chrysler, ultimately to 51% to give it the "in" to the north American market it so craves.
The only way Fiat can fund increasing it's holding in Chrysler is to raise a significant amount of cash.
Guess what Fiat's most valuable asset is??
Ultimately (a successful alliance with) Chrysler is worth far more to the Fiat coffers than Ferrari could ever dream to be, even with their projections for emerging markets.

[donskar]

This from today's Automotive News (doesn't sound like Fiat needs to sell Ferrari):
http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/a ... 29856/1492

Fiat has the cash to raise Chrysler stake to 51%, Marchionne says

TURIN, Italy -- Fiat S.p.A. has enough cash to boost its stake in Chrysler Group to 51 percent by the end of this year, CEO Sergio Marchionne said.

Today’s statements by Marchionne, who leads both automakers, follow comments earlier this month indicating Fiat is on track to lift its share to 35 percent this year from the current 25 percent.

On a call with analysts today, Marchionne said Fiat has “an abundant cash cushion” that would allow Fiat to fund this year’s investments as well as exercise an option to purchase an additional 16 percent of the U.S. automaker.

Fiat today reported it had 15.9 billion euros ($21.8 billion) in cash at the end of last year, 28 percent more than a year earlier.

Analysts estimate Fiat may pay between $900 million to $4.4 billion for the 16 percent.

. . . . .

Fiat said today that fourth-quarter earnings before interest, taxes and one-time items -- which Fiat calls trading profit -- rose 26 percent to 615 million euros.

[Raptor22]

thats the usual reassurance before the kick out the door.

[donskar]

thats the usual reassurance before the kick out the door.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Just look at the name of the current Ferrari F1 car.

F150.

Its launching Dimontezemolo into politics. Thats the draw Ferrari holds in Italy.
Its a symbol of Italian pride, technnology and some say even modern identity.
If anyone thinks Ferrari will be another Skoda, Bugatti or Lamborghini they are very sorely mistaken.

VW will never be able to match middle eastern investment either, this is the biggest flaw in any argument of "VW to buy Ferrari".
Investment funds in the middle east will pay 20 to 30% more for any equivalent stake in Ferrari. The deals being struck in the automotive industry at present are mostly coming from middle eastern investments. Daimler, Mclaren even VW are subject to arab oil money.
There are all sorts of fancy buy back clauses etc for the oil men to get returns on their investments.

If Fiat really needs the cash this will be their first and only necessary port of call. And Ferrari will remain entirely under Fiat control(which currenty means total autonomy) which is precisely the way Italians will want it.


Kinda hope this buries the thread now

[donskar]

Just look at the name of the current Ferrari F1 car.

F150.

Its launching Dimontezemolo into politics. Thats the draw Ferrari holds in Italy.
Its a symbol of Italian pride, technnology and some say even modern identity.
If anyone thinks Ferrari will be another Skoda, Bugatti or Lamborghini they are very sorely mistaken.

VW will never be able to match middle eastern investment either, this is the biggest flaw in any argument of "VW to buy Ferrari".
Investment funds in the middle east will pay 20 to 30% more for any equivalent stake in Ferrari. The deals being struck in the automotive industry at present are mostly coming from middle eastern investments. Daimler, Mclaren even VW are subject to arab oil money.
There are all sorts of fancy buy back clauses etc for the oil men to get returns on their investments.

If Fiat really needs the cash this will be their first and only necessary port of call. And Ferrari will remain entirely under Fiat control(which currenty means total autonomy) which is precisely the way Italians will want it.


Kinda hope this buries the thread now

I'd like to hope what you said above is true, but the hatred for Ferrari is immune to reason.

[Raptor22]

I seriously doubt VAG would buy Ferrari anyways.

They already own:
Porsche
Bentley
Bugatti
Audi
- Lamborghini
Skoda
SEAT
Suzuki
Scania
and VW commercial Vehicles
This is besides Volkswagen itself.

Where would Ferrari fit in?

Porsche is very profitable as is Bentley.
Bugatti is really just there for showing off
Lamborghini has a heritage of its own and so does Audi (DKW, Auto Union, Horst, Audi)

Ferrari has no place in their portfolio and its a cultural misfit.

they may have the cash to buy Ferrar but I doubt they would ever consider it.