P.U.R.E Appointment

[xpensive]

...
They have Simon, Mecachrome and IFPEN on board, apparently, but goodness knows what customers they'll have. They need a good five to break even. Motori Moderni? At least they got their engine in a car. If Pollock is involved though, clear the area.

But who's paying for the show, are they gonna brand the engines...Hyundai, KIA, Yugo or perhaps...VW?

Yes, that's it! I knew it, Piech is smart enough the pick a winner when he sees one!

[Edis]

Is his reasoning of higher costs for there being 6 instead of 4 cylinders, sound?
I ask because a F20C Honda engine with 4 cylinders costs a bomb to produce, more than most V6's and even some V8's.
Surely if you had a deicated team, the only extra expense would be material(minor), so why even mention it?

Political?

Everything else being equal, a six cylinder engine cost more to make than a four cylinder engine and a V engine is more expensive to make than an inline engine.

To produce one piston for a six cylinder engine cost almost as much as producing one piston for a four cylinder engine. Since the six cylinder engine requires 50% more pistons the costs per piston will be slightly lower due to the higher volume (the cost of for instance the forging tool will shared by the larger number of pistons), but the total costs are higher. The same goes for conrods, piston pins, valves, fuel injectors and so on. If there's an external supplier the cost per part can even be identical regardless ov volume, which increase the costs for the six cylinder engine.

A V engine is more expensive to make since it has two different cylinder head castings, four camshafts and a more complex camshaft drive.

And no, the extra cost is not only material but mostly in the number of hours required to make the engine.

[xpensive]

...
Everything else being equal, a six cylinder engine cost more to make than a four cylinder engine...
...

That statement has an eerie familiar ring to it, now where did I read it before?

- As for P.U.R.E., mark my words, they are a cover for VW, Gilles Simon would never join Pollock without a big time backer.

[cossie]

It's still basically going to be a Mechachrome engine, and IMO i do not see anyone lining up to buy one, again Pollock has pissed off all the teams so again i don't see any team buying his engines

[xpensive]

It's still basically going to be a Mechachrome engine, and IMO i do not see anyone lining up to buy one, again Pollock has pissed off all the teams so again i don't see any team buying his engines

They will only need one customer, Red Bull Racing, with cars branded as Red Bull VW.

[PhillipM]

And no, the extra cost is not only material but mostly in the number of hours required to make the engine.

The material and build labour will be a downright drop in the ocean compared to the machine setups, jigs, moulds, testing and development costs.

[donskar]

If it wasn't for Gilles Simon, if that is confirmed, I would doubt the seriousness in the entire thing, finding customers in F1 is not xactly something you do with advertising. This is something Craig Pollock should know, why I wonder what this is all about?

If this is serious, ending up like some 2014 Motori Moderni is probably the best they can hope for.

If Gilles Simon (aka William Simon in Autosport) has the resources, he'll design a competitive engine.

[donskar]

It's still basically going to be a Mechachrome engine, and IMO i do not see anyone lining up to buy one, again Pollock has pissed off all the teams so again i don't see any team buying his engines

They will only need one customer, Red Bull Racing, with cars branded as Red Bull VW.

True, but unlikely. Cosworth says they will be OK next year with just two customers, but they have multiple cash streams. PURE? Anyone remember the LIFE F1 team?

[xpensive]

...
PURE? Anyone remember the LIFE F1 team?

Come now Don, do you think for a second that a man of Gilles Simon's track-record would consider working for them if Pollock didn't have the proper financial back-up to show for? And which kind of backer would it take to convince him, VW of course!

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Thanks for the explanation Edis, PhilM and X.
It makes more sense to me now.

Just a thought on what X mentioned regards Red Bull. What is in the rules to prevent a team switching engine suppliers in season?
Should the PURE lumps be top notch, could RB ditch Renault for the other, or would the installation issues be to prohibitive given the modern day rear aero requirements?

[xpensive]

What I belive is that P.U.R.E was a VW cover-operation from the start, which would more easily xplain Simon's hasty leaving from the FIA without any "gardening leave" demanded by his boss, Jean Todt, the new rules were primarily aimed at VW afterall.

If that is the case, Red Bull Racing is already in on it and will switch to VW for the 2014 season.

- Mechacrome fits the bill as VW don't have the know-how or facilities for such developments anyway.

- Pollock fits the bill because he's a notorious wheeler and dealer who nobody takes serious anyway.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

But VW wanted 4 cylinder engines X, otherwise yes it would've been plausible.

I also recall Horner being a bit miffed by it all, surely can't have gone down well in the corridors of power at Wolfsburg.

[xpensive]

Matters very little JET, when the decision for V6s came, VW, P.U.R.E. and Red Bull were already past point of no return.

This is of course why Pollock is whining the the way he does, the project is very far in development since quite some time.

Not a big deal anyway, VW have V6s as well.

[cossie]

no one is going to buy a Mechachrome badged as a VW

[xpensive]

I didn't know this, PURE is actually French;

Propulsion Universelle et Recuperation d’Energie.

Kinda cute, no?