2015 Hungarian Grand Prix - 24-26 July

[ChrisF1]

Rosberg-Ricciardo is no different to these imo - ignore the dive up the inside, the collision was nothing to do with that:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37qZKH3P7X4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPd7NJ2StRE

Skip to 1:16

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6GLT5VdWH8

Now, on the basis that Ricciardo is wrong, Stevens, Kobayashi and Button are all wrong and should have braked.

Those vids show collisions in the breaking zone, not on the turn exit, which is totally different...

So what about the rule where you must leave a cars width, as per Vettel getting penalised for pushing Alonso round the outside at Monza?

People blaming ricciardo have no consistency and seem to be pulling their reasons out of thin air and then ignoring everything when I challenge it.

[Andres125sx]

Rosberg-Ricciardo is no different to these imo - ignore the dive up the inside, the collision was nothing to do with that:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37qZKH3P7X4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPd7NJ2StRE

Skip to 1:16

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6GLT5VdWH8

Now, on the basis that Ricciardo is wrong, Stevens, Kobayashi and Button are all wrong and should have braked.

Those vids show collisions in the breaking zone, not on the turn exit, which is totally different...

So what about the rule where you must leave a cars width, as per Vettel getting penalised for pushing Alonso round the outside at Monza?

People blaming ricciardo have no consistency and seem to be pulling their reasons out of thin air and then ignoring everything when I challenge it.

You must leave a cars width... when the car trying to overtake has earned the position, not when the car is still clearly behind. Earned position is when the front wing of the car trying to overtake reach driver´s cockpit of the other car if my memory serve me

In this case Ricciardo had not earned the position, so he should have released the throttle because his front wing was only side by side with Rosberg´s rear wheel, as the puncture prove.

[ChrisF1]

Can you show me where he is clearly behind, because if he was clearly behind there wouldn't have been contact.

[Andres125sx]

His front wing puncturing Rosberg´s rear tyre is not proof enough about the relative position between the two?

[GPR-A duplicate2]

His front wing puncturing Rosberg´s rear tyre is not proof enough about the relative position between the two?

At that point, no driver would be thinking of backing off and Ricciardo did the same thing. If anything, Rosberg clearly was thinking of blocking Ricciardo as there was so much space for him to go straight. His car direction clearly says that, he was going to cut across Ricciardo.

[Silent Storm]

His front wing puncturing Rosberg´s rear tyre is not proof enough about the relative position between the two?

http://s26.postimg.org/ooxdp9yzc/ric_vs_ros.jpg
At that point, no driver would be thinking of backing off and Ricciardo did the same thing. If anything, Rosberg clearly was thinking of blocking Ricciardo as there was so much space for him to go straight. His car direction clearly says that, he was going to cut across Ricciardo.

From that angle it looks like Rosberg was going for that direction to block Ricciardo but he was clearly on the racing line and following it. So not trying to block. There was space for rosberg to turn more towards right but why would he compromise his line and give space to Ricciardo when he was ahead of him and on the racing line. Looking at Vettel ahead you can understand that Rosberg was on correct line.

I agree with Andres125sx Ricciardo should have backed off.

[George-Jung]

BTW, I´m also impressed by Verstappen, the worst you will ever read from me is he´s too young or he has made some rookie mistakes, what is normal, the kid is really good.

But that does not change reality, Sainz is matching his perfomance consistently when not being faster and deserve a more fair treatment.

Don't get me wrong either, I also believe that Sainz is a very good driver and that the both of them are pushing each other.
You do have to keep in mind that Sainz has more experience compared to Verstappen and I believe that if you take that in to account, Verstappen is doing slightly better.

[GPR-A duplicate2]

His front wing puncturing Rosberg´s rear tyre is not proof enough about the relative position between the two?

http://s26.postimg.org/ooxdp9yzc/ric_vs_ros.jpg
At that point, no driver would be thinking of backing off and Ricciardo did the same thing. If anything, Rosberg clearly was thinking of blocking Ricciardo as there was so much space for him to go straight. His car direction clearly says that, he was going to cut across Ricciardo.

From that angle it looks like Rosberg was going for that direction to block Ricciardo but he was clearly on the racing line and following it. So not trying to block. There was space for rosberg to turn more towards right but why would he compromise his line and give space to Ricciardo when he was ahead of him and on the racing line. Looking at Vettel ahead you can understand that Rosberg was on correct line.

I agree with Andres125sx Ricciardo should have backed off.

There is something called fair racing. If Nico would have followed that line when no one is aside, no issues at all, but the moment there is someone fighting, you need to understand how much space to leave and how to fight in that situation. Unfortunately, Nico has always been clumsy in wheel to wheel racing and it was evident one more time that he didn't showed any intent of fair racing. He simply shut the door too soon on Ricciardo and Ricciardo has shown great skills of wheel to wheel racing and he probably trusted Nico as he has trusted Alonso and Vettel in the past. That was a lesson to Ricciardo.

[Phil]

There was space for rosberg to turn more towards right but why would he compromise his line and give space to Ricciardo when he was ahead of him and on the racing line.

To...

1.) not crowd another car that was there too?
2.) avoid a collision and potential DNF?
3.) avoid the puncture and a loss of 6 positions and 14 points in the WDC, but more importantly, instead of leaving with a plus of 12 points vs his WDC contender, leave with the gap extending to another 4 points more?

I really don't get this kind of discussion. Rosberg knew where Ricciardo was. He watched him sail past in front of him as Ric missed the apex and he knew exactly that Ricciardo would be on the left part of the track and it'd be a neck to neck race to the next apex, Ric being on the inside of the next corner. What Rosberg had going for him was that he had more momentum, more speed. Now, Rosberg isn't stupid - what happened was that he simply misjudged the relative gaps and nicked Ricciardos front wing. Nothing more, nothing less. A split second later, he'd be clear of any collision, but due to the finest of margins, it wasn't meant to be.

But to argue over who should have left room on the track? Come on! Ric had nowhere to go and he certainly wasn't in a position to know what Rosberg would do with that much space to his right to anticipate having to brake in time when Rosberg came over to his side.

[ChrisF1]

His front wing puncturing Rosberg´s rear tyre is not proof enough about the relative position between the two?

Yes, Ricciardo was not clearly behind as you stated. Feel free to take that back any time you want.

[miguelalvesreis]

Rosberg-Ricciardo is no different to these imo - ignore the dive up the inside, the collision was nothing to do with that:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37qZKH3P7X4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPd7NJ2StRE

Skip to 1:16

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6GLT5VdWH8

Now, on the basis that Ricciardo is wrong, Stevens, Kobayashi and Button are all wrong and should have braked.

Those vids show collisions in the breaking zone, not on the turn exit, which is totally different...

So what about the rule where you must leave a cars width, as per Vettel getting penalised for pushing Alonso round the outside at Monza?

People blaming ricciardo have no consistency and seem to be pulling their reasons out of thin air and then ignoring everything when I challenge it.

Was it so different from last year's SPA?

[miguelalvesreis]

If someone really think this was the best strategy for STR, please explain, because I fail to see any logic apart from favouring who Marko called new Senna

Sainz DNF, so it doesn't matter how you look at it..
This was the best strategy.

Besides that, it is not inly Marko who is impressed by Verstappen..

Yeap! We can clerarly see that you are

[Andres125sx]

BTW, I´m also impressed by Verstappen, the worst you will ever read from me is he´s too young or he has made some rookie mistakes, what is normal, the kid is really good.

But that does not change reality, Sainz is matching his perfomance consistently when not being faster and deserve a more fair treatment.

Don't get me wrong either, I also believe that Sainz is a very good driver and that the both of them are pushing each other.
You do have to keep in mind that Sainz has more experience compared to Verstappen and I believe that if you take that in to account, Verstappen is doing slightly better.

That´s debatable, but here we were discussing about Hungary race, some of you were justifying STR decision saying Max had been faster during the weekend, what I proved wrong as Sainz was faster on all FPs. Also saying he had been faster in race so he deserved preference even when he was behind, what I also proved wrong because Sainz was on traffic the whole first stint so nobady knew his real pace, and if we look at FP it was Sainz who was faster.

Basically there was no reason to gift the undercut to Max, and they ruined Sainz race completely. It doesn´t mind as his car didn´t finish, but at that point of the race nobody knew that and the team concealed preference to Max despite being the car behind

This is F1, if that´s STR politics Sainz will have to admit it. But let´s put the cards on the table.

[ChrisF1]

Was it so different from last year's SPA?

I see Spa as a completely different incident because Rosberg was never making a realistic move, he was just putting his car in a position where the angle of the corner meant the gap was always closing.

Ricciardo however was already IN the gap, and it wasn't closing - Rosberg made a move to cut him up and got it wrong.

[Pierce89]

His front wing puncturing Rosberg´s rear tyre is not proof enough about the relative position between the two?

http://s26.postimg.org/ooxdp9yzc/ric_vs_ros.jpg
At that point, no driver would be thinking of backing off and Ricciardo did the same thing. If anything, Rosberg clearly was thinking of blocking Ricciardo as there was so much space for him to go straight. His car direction clearly says that, he was going to cut across Ricciardo.

From that angle it looks like Rosberg was going for that direction to block Ricciardo but he was clearly on the racing line and following it. So not trying to block. There was space for rosberg to turn more towards right but why would he compromise his line and give space to Ricciardo when he was ahead of him and on the racing line. Looking at Vettel ahead you can understand that Rosberg was on correct line.

I agree with Andres125sx Ricciardo should have backed off.

Where did we get the idea that a person passing around the outside should have to back off when the other person tries to push out? That was never proper racing etiquette. In fact, The whole point of passing around the outside is that the inside car can't follow the racing line all the way out and therefor can't maintain optimal speed.