Italian GP 2010 - Monza

[ringo]

Not exactly true. He was in Alonso's shadow, and Massa could have braked as well,or simply stick to the outside curb. No car was in his way really.
Going for a non existent gap only happens when the other car is clearly ahead or is guarding the inside.
Massa hit him in the back too before the front wheel, so it was more like Massa ramming his way through. Massa could easily have ridden the curb, but he wanted to eliminate the man that took the 2008 championship from him, he enjoyed it.

It's funny how Massa didn't see anything. I think he knew exactly what he was doing. He spent so much time explain his actions as well, which is a sign of guilt.
It's Hamilton's fault for believing Massa would fear him and give room. It's Massa's fault for ramming his depleted uranium battle tank into Hamilton, knowing full well it wont even scratch the paint.
I'd say it's a racing incident, but nowhere near Vettel's recent stupidity.

Maybe he explained himself fully because of people that are so damn biased they won't believe him. I cannot believe how you can consider that malicious, oh wait I can. It was a racing incident, get over yourself. Jesus Christ, you'll make up any story to satisfy your morbid love for a man that races a car. He got hit, Massa closed the door because they are racing for position. Not everyone is out to get Hamilton. Chill ... out, no need for your ... conspiracies. And yes, that is an attack on the poster, ...

Your post isn't even necessary, I said it was a racing incident, read the whole post.
You need to chill out, I made that post pages ago.

[horse]

Can you confirm that the lollipop man knew of the radio guy's presence?

No, I can't. I don't know the details. I assume the lollipop man is watching the four points of the car though.

You lambast the lollipop man then cite the colour of the teams overall as the problem - which is it?

Well, I think that the lollipop man was not aware (or forgot) about the extra member of pit crew and lost sight of him due to the dark overalls on the dark car. Frankly, he was lucky that the crew member was not killed by the rear wing. The lollipop man carries the responsibility of ensuring the safety of the crew, which is why I lambasted his actions in losing sight of the extra pit crew member.

[ringo]

Was probably focused on the four wheel gunner's hands signaling.

Anyone notice the Virgin beating the Lotus today?
I don't think any of the new teams can get that magical point to put them ahead automatically. Things are too competitive.
Buemi also came close to points.

[andrew]

Can you confirm that the lollipop man knew of the radio guy's presence?

No, I can't. I don't know the details. I assume the lollipop man is watching the four points of the car though.

You lambast the lollipop man then cite the colour of the teams overall as the problem - which is it?

Well, I think that the lollipop man was not aware (or forgot) about the extra member of pit crew and lost sight of him due to the dark overalls on the dark car. Frankly, he was lucky that the crew member was not killed by the rear wing. The lollipop man carries the responsibility of ensuring the safety of the crew, which is why I lambasted his actions in losing sight of the extra pit crew member.

So the lollipop man is quite possibly not a dick as you previously claimed?

[747heavy]

give the lollipop guy a break man, that´s a pretty tough job.
Sure, having someone craweld over the side of the car, is not part
of the standard drill.
If they don´t let him (loolipop man) know, there is another guy to look
out for, I would not blame him.
It´s pretty ambitious to try and fix a radio problem in ~4 sec., not very
smart IMHO.

I´m glad the guy is o.k., because that was a pretty hard hit, and if he smack
his head onto the tarmac, it´s easy to get injured, pretty badly.

There should be a max person in pitlane (over the line) rule in F1, like there is
in most other race series, to prevent things like this from happening.

[andartop]

This race was almost exactly what the championship needed.

Alonso was controlling JB all the way to the pit stops, staying a bit behind to get some clean air and closing the gap at will. Surely not the most popular way to overtake for the fans but after all the mistakes, problems and incidents this year he really needed to be careful and deliver, which he did. Shame he's running out of engines.

Massa gave Alonso a good scare at the start, it looked like they touched wheels at the first chicane, then settled for third. I guess Ferrari could have been more aggressive and maybe try and get both cars in front of JB.

I was surprised Hulk didn't get a drive through for that incident with MW, especially as he cut that chicane on 3 different occasions (at least).

A lot for conspiracy theorists to discuss about Vettel's problem. Funny that it appeared as soon as Webber was closing in behind him and disappeared as soon as he was through. Also funny they were in such different strategies that would precisely justify a team order. However, as we know, Red Bull do not issue team orders, so it must have been a coincidence. Let's see if it will happen again.

As for the best overtaker ever, well, it seems everyone at McLaren kept telling him after quali yesterday not to bin it in the first chicane but no one said anything about the second one! Seriously now, being on the first lap and having two cars drag racing in front of you all the way from the first to the second chicane you simply keep clear or you're looking for trouble. Just look at previous races and how many incidents there have been on these two chicanes during the first lap..I'm just glad he didn't take Massa out with him, which would definitely have been as stupid as some of Vettel's moves and worthy of a penalty.

[horse]

So the lollipop man is quite possibly not a dick as you previously claimed?

I don't know. If I'd nearly killed someone through a mistake of my own, then I'd feel like a pretty big dick. I can't speak for the lollipop man's feelings about the competence of his own actions.

EDIT: He's way out of position at the start of the stop, which is probably why he misses the extra man. It's his responsibility to release the car when it is safe to do so and he failed.

[andrew]

But none of us know who was at fault so none of us can pass judgement can we? Better off to wait before we decide who was at fault rather than jumping to conclusions.

[Ray]

Your post isn't even necessary, I said it was a racing incident, read the whole post.
You need to chill out, I made that post pages ago.

Actually you said it was a racing incident and then lambasted Massa again for his racing. So nothing has really changed.

[ringo]

It's not as bad as it turned out. Nothing outrageous really.
He'll learn from it. It's the wrong time to be learning, but this was probably the best opportunity to get a wake up call, when it comes to choosing who and when to attack.
Call me paranoid, but Ferrari can use Massa to do anything, it's best all front running contenders avoid him on track at all costs.

Redbull weren't strong here, Webber just 5 points away, not as bad as it sounds crashing out. Hamilton just makes it harder on himself for the next 5 races. The championship is tight and there's no clear strongest driver who can take control of all five races.

I wont comment on Vettel's mistakes being comparable to Hamilton's. Vettel's mistakes were pure unavoidable carnage, with him losing control of his vehicle in all cases. Lewis' was a light tap on a wheel, caused from someone driving into him. Massa was never under threat of being taken out. He would have to be shunted, and that would be down to him cutting over blindly ignoring the car on the inside.
Webber's overtake on Hulkenberg was similar, but they both gave room.

[Ray]

Differences aside Ringo, I bet we can agree that Lewis going out on the first lap made the race worse. I was upset to see such a small tap take him out. Alonso pushing Button was good, but with Lewis up there it would have been an awesome knife fight between those three.

[Giblet]

So the lollipop man is quite possibly not a dick as you previously claimed?

I don't know. If I'd nearly killed someone through a mistake of my own, then I'd feel like a pretty big dick. I can't speak for the lollipop man's feelings about the competence of his own actions.

EDIT: He's way out of position at the start of the stop, which is probably why he misses the extra man. It's his responsibility to release the car when it is safe to do so and he failed.

Unfortunately the larger the responsibility of the job, the greater the mistakes can be. The lollipop man's scope of error is basically hurting people or making cars run into each others. There's not too much else he can do wrong.

[andrew]

The responsibility of the lollipop man is huge and I certainly don't envy any one who does that job.

[horse]

Unfortunately the larger the responsibility of the job, the greater the mistakes can be. The lollipop man's scope of error is basically hurting people or making cars run into each others. There's not too much else he can do wrong.

The responsibility of the lollipop man is huge and I certainly don't envy any one who does that job.

Well, you know what, guys? There could be a way to halve that responsibility.

Anyway, I'm glad the crew member is not too badly hurt, which is the important thing. It's funny though, the pit lane has not been free from incident for many a season.

[ringo]

Your post isn't even necessary, I said it was a racing incident, read the whole post.
You need to chill out, I made that post pages ago.

Actually you said it was a racing incident and then lambasted Massa again for his racing. So nothing has really changed.

Well after the whole team orders thing with ferrari, i have reason to be suspicious of what Massa has freedom to do on track.

I think it was 2008 or 2007 where Massa spun Hamilton around in the first turns of a certain race (malaysia?); i can't remember. But Massa doesn't have much regard for Hamilton when he is close by. Massa moved twice in Australia defending Hamilton, damaging his wing and there are other instances.
I've nothing against Massa, but for a guy with nothing to play for, he's dangerous in this part of the championship, and his only aim could be to trip up the front runners to keep Alonso in touch.
Massa doesn't have to aim to crash into someone to trip them up. Let me be clear he didn't aim to hit Hamilton today, all he really did was throw caution to the wind and went for a gap that could have potentially ended his race as well.
He covered Alonso's gear box, if he went through clean, no problem, if he hit Hamilton in the process, no problem.

Call me paranoid, but Massa's role is not to win for himself; it's to keep Alonso ahead.