The relative benefits of a pull rod suspension

[DaveW]

- pullrod suspension. Time to do it Ferrari!

It is rumored by me that they are going to change by mid-season! You heard it here first!

Would not surprise me, given recent internal turmoils. Equally, I wouldn't be surprised if WGP abandoned their innovative layout after recent turmoils. Clearly, that isn't working either.....

Odd that both were in the top three in Monaco FP2. Hey ho.

[marcush.]

Is push rod really the single item holding back Ferrari? It took the other teams how many years to realise ? So from that point of view Ferrari is slowest in development or what... changing the layout that fundamentally in season is going to create more trouble than it might solve but stranger things have happened when people are desperate..

[xpensive]

Oh my, what do you know, a push rod car won the British GP in dominant style, a Ferrari at that, they must be cheating?

[raymondu999]

Of course! The push rod must be banned

[ringo]

You got to be kidding me!!
Look when you guys chose to respond.

Doesn't change the fact the car won a race on a regulation change, and a botched pit stop.

Come back again and tell me why ferrari wont go pull rod next year.

Tell my why the car only mustered one win, from favourable circumstances.

Ferrari are changing next year and you can quote me on that one.

The pull rod really had no weaknesses after all.

Next year guys.

[xpensive]

Au contraire, I think you will see more push rods next year, as teams has by now realized that packaging and adjustment of the pull rod is a nightmare, while CoG and aerodynamic gains are minimal.

And you can quote me on that one.

[ringo]

evidence?

Just watch ferrari next year.

They wont forget about being over lapped this year. That was a new low.

[hardingfv32]

What is so hard about the adjustments and packaging of the pull rod system?

Brian

[xpensive]

What is so hard about the adjustments and packaging of the pull rod system?

Brian

Just consider the physical location of the spring/damper units and I think you get the picture.

[Jersey Tom]

I can't wait to revive this dumb thread when the 2012 cars are unveiled

[xpensive]

I can't wait to revive this dumb thread when the 2012 cars are unveiled

Good thinking there, perhaps we should have a pool, who wants to chip in on push or pull?

[Formula None]

I can't wait to revive this dumb thread when the 2012 cars are unveiled

100% agree. As much as I love the RB5/6/7s, I still can't get on board with the pullrod evangelists. I can imagine Ferrari sticking with pushrod, just to prove some point by not copying other teams (although they have adopted a RB type radiator exit at some races this year), but rather lengthening the gearbox and pushrods more to get a more slender RB style bodywork cross-section ahead of the beam wing. Can Ferrari's pushrods get much longer? I have no idea, but is it really physically impossible to do this with a compression member? And you get to keep suspension members out of the area below the lower wishbone, ahead of the diffuser roof.

How about some compromise: Have the bellcranks mounted on long extension shafts, locate the bulky suspension components as far forward as possible, operate them remotely in a sense. I'm assuming issues would be the bellcrank extension shaft flexing, and adding inertia to the bellcrank.

Pullrod evangelists... Hmmm, funny thing, that reminds me of some controversies we've had in the states recently.

[hardingfv32]

"that packaging and adjustment of the pull rod is a nightmare"

No, I do not get the picture. If I am the mechanic paid to working on these cars then I do not care what hoops I have to go through to make a my car more competitive. This is all about having the fastest car with the required reliability. There is no requirement to keep the mechanics happy. There could be some time limitations to making some adjustments, but generally I doubt much is done to the suspension in the form of routine adjustments. Most of the setup should be verified on the 7-8 poster before arriving at the track.

I see nothing wrong from the mechanic's point of view with the current designs.

Brian

[xpensive]

...
I see nothing wrong from the mechanic's point of view with the current designs.

Brian

I guess you don't, Brian.

[munudeges]

I see this thread has reared its head again because Ferrari managed to scramble their first win.

From a mechanical point of view I'm pretty sure that pushrod is the best simply because it is more accurate and precise to push than to pull, regardless of anyone who has said the two options are equal.

However, aerodynamics is king in Formula 1 and if you look at where the unrestricted space is in a pullrod layout with this single diffuser we have it all matches up. Ferrari have had to come up with a very forward facing pushrod this year incurring quite a bit more stress just to be able to keep up. However, things don't stand still for very long and they really can't do anything more with that suspension layout as the aerodynamic development inevitably moves on.