2014 Japanese Grand Prix - Suzuka

[Shakeman]

Well it was the first green after the scene of the accident, isn't that normal?

Yes it's normal to wave the greens after the incident being cleared.

[A13EX_f]

Double waved yellows should come out whenever marshalls or tractors etc are on track. Drivers should be made to use pit lane speed limiter through that area or sector or from the start of that sector until a green flag after the accident. with instant disqualification if they speed.

Recovery vehicles obviously need some sort of ground clearance but should have a skirt around them of some sort of absorbing material set at a height below the minimum nose cone height

[F1NAC]

Slowing down suffiently at double yellows is the solution. These guys are paid big bucks, they know it's a high risk job and so they need to be fully responsible for their own safety. There's only so much that the fia can do. I think the measures in place are sufficient apart from looking into more detail thr deployment of tge tractor, everything else should rest on the driver when it comes to safe conduct on track and duting yellow flags.

It was poor visibility, even Sutil said that. Possibly he didn't saw double yellows or he entered too fast in zone with double yellows. There was surely need for a safety car when machinery is going out and the track is wet. There is no excuse for that

[mekanikal_grip]

From Sky Sports F1:

Medical helicopter could fly and did take off to check conditions. BIANCHI was taken by a road ambulance due to MEDICAL reasons, not due to visibility or weather conditions.

What kind of medical reason would prevent an airlift? Shouldn't that still be a better option since it will get Bianchi to the hospital sooner?

The only one that springs to my mind is a serious one I'm afraid. They won't normally airlift a patient who needs, or might need, to be ventilated as, depending in the model of helicopter used, that's not possible due to space.

Alternatively it could be that he actually wasn't deemed serious enough to need a helicopter. You can be unconscious without it being life-threatening and so it was decided to take him by road...

I suppose there could also have been concerns about weather at the receiving hospital due to high winds...

For the record I'm a first year student Paramedic, so whilst I have some knowledge in this area, I could just as easily be completely wrong...

It would've been due to the pressurisation in the helicopter and the swelling and pressure on the brain.

Think of what happens to a bottle of water when your on an aeroplane after take off, it expands and to a small degree your body does the same.

Fingers crossed the poor guy pulls through

[Shakeman]

Just seen the BBC coverage, totally clueless about the Bianchi accident.

You realise in the comm box they only have a tiny monitor not a 60" plasma. It was impossible to see what was happening behind the tractor and only once did a BIA graphic appear briefly at the incident, easily missed if you're also looking out the window and on other monitors trying to follow the chaos.

The main broadcast feed missed the Bianchi crash otherwise the replay would've easily shown them what was happening, the BBC comm box were as clueless as everyone else.

[Faustino]

I think after Q2 on saturday when it was clear they had a front row lock out in the bag, Hamilton opted for a set up more suited for the race which is why his pace was limited in Q3. No chance he was really slower than Rosberg by 0.3 over 1 lap.

It was clear to see he was far more comfortable today and was quite an easy win.

There's not much more to be said about Jules, it's all if's and buts regarding a procedural fault after Sutil went off. I don't see what Charlie Whiting could have done to prevent Bianchi from driving too fast with yellow flags being waved.

Medical staff were with him very quickly, the only issue that can really be questioned is the use of ambulance over helicopter. This part makes no sense and contradicts the initial FIA Statement. Matteo Bonciani stated that conditions prevented the helicopter taking off which only left the ambulance as an option.

Statement here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Z5WieEg8Ok

Yet afterwards, we were told that the helicopter did indeed take off around the same time the ambulance left.

Why would they choose to take a 40+ minute trip to Hospital by road when a helicopter would have had him there in less than half that time?? All vital minutes and seconds

[Shakeman]

It would've been due to the pressurisation in the helicopter and the swelling and pressure on the brain.

Think of what happens to a bottle of water when your on an aeroplane after take off, it expands and to a small degree your body does the same.

Fingers crossed the poor guy pulls through

Gary Hartstein ruled that out as a reason not to fly. Helis do not fly high enough to make a difference.

[ChrisM40]

Just seen the BBC coverage, totally clueless about the Bianchi accident.

You realise in the comm box they only have a tiny monitor not a 60" plasma. It was impossible to see what was happening behind the tractor and only once did a BIA graphic appear briefly at the incident, easily missed if you're also looking out the window and on other monitors trying to follow the chaos.

The main broadcast feed missed the Bianchi crash otherwise the replay would've easily shown them what was happening, the BBC comm box were as clueless as everyone else.

Sky F1 got it pretty quickly.

[smellybeard]

Well it was the first green after the scene of the accident, isn't that normal?

Yes it's normal to wave the greens after the incident being cleared.

It's normal to wave the greens on the exit of the yellow zone.

As a former marshal, I have to say that I squirmed when I saw the machine out in front of the barrier without a Safety Car. The first thing you learn is where one car goes off, others can.

[deterherligt]

Why would they choose to take a 40+ minute trip to Hospital by road when a helicopter would have had him there in less than half that time?? All vital minutes and seconds

The ambulance was choosen as there is to much presure difference in a helicopter. For severe head injuries an ambulance is much better. Also the hospital was only a 10 minute drive from the circuit.

Can we maybe move all this bianchi talk to a new thread? Today was a great race overshadowed by a freak accident. The accident needs its own thread.

[Shakeman]

Why would they choose to take a 40+ minute trip to Hospital by road when a helicopter would have had him there in less than half that time?? All vital minutes and seconds

The ambulance was choosen as there is to much presure difference in a helicopter. For severe head injuries an ambulance is much better. Also the hospital was only a 10 minute drive from the circuit.

Can we maybe move all this bianchi talk to a new thread? Today was a great race overshadowed by a freak accident. The accident needs its own thread.

Gary Hartstein former F1 doc ruled out pressure being the reason not to fly.

[Jano11]

Why would they choose to take a 40+ minute trip to Hospital by road when a helicopter would have had him there in less than half that time?? All vital minutes and seconds

The ambulance was choosen as there is to much presure difference in a helicopter. For severe head injuries an ambulance is much better. Also the hospital was only a 10 minute drive from the circuit.

Can we maybe move all this bianchi talk to a new thread? Today was a great race overshadowed by a freak accident. The accident needs its own thread.

Gary Hartstein former F1 doc ruled out pressure being the reason not to fly.

The doc at the accident scene probably took the decision based on info at hand.

[adrianjordan]

What kind of medical reason would prevent an airlift? Shouldn't that still be a better option since it will get Bianchi to the hospital sooner?

The only one that springs to my mind is a serious one I'm afraid. They won't normally airlift a patient who needs, or might need, to be ventilated as, depending in the model of helicopter used, that's not possible due to space.

Alternatively it could be that he actually wasn't deemed serious enough to need a helicopter. You can be unconscious without it being life-threatening and so it was decided to take him by road...

I suppose there could also have been concerns about weather at the receiving hospital due to high winds...

For the record I'm a first year student Paramedic, so whilst I have some knowledge in this area, I could just as easily be completely wrong...

It would've been due to the pressurisation in the helicopter and the swelling and pressure on the brain.

Think of what happens to a bottle of water when your on an aeroplane after take off, it expands and to a small degree your body does the same.

Fingers crossed the poor guy pulls through[/quote]

Not a problem at the altitude helicopters fly at.

My Tutor at University is an Air Ambulance Paramedic and our uni is at a major trauma centre...I can say with certainty that they regularly airlift serious head injury patients in a non-pressurised cabin.

[Gaz.]

Why was the fia being bullied by honda over this race anyway. Some drivers wanted to start ealier and twice the fia asked honda and they said no. The fia obviously felt it was a valid argument. They should of been a lot stronger and give honda the option start earlier or not at all. Weak.

With the rain at the start they would have had to start much earlier. Telling tens of thousands spectators that you'll start the race a couple of hours early knowing they have train ticket that won't let them get to the track to see the races is a tough call.

The typhoon was first spoken of on Monday, by Thursday it was a near certainty that it would affect the race on Sunday, by Friday people were openly asking if the race would be moved to Saturday or 11am Sunday morning. Honda had plenty of time to move the race, inform the fans and honour the Sunday tickets for a 11am Sunday start. Suzuka usually has a strong three day attendance and many tickets are Sat&Sun tickets so many of the race day ticket holders would have had Saturday tickets already. The fans also have to leave the circuit and get safely home so I'm sure they would not have minded moving the start time/day. (I realise that sounds more abrupt than intended, sorry)

[adrianjordan]

With the rain at the start they would have had to start much earlier. Telling tens of thousands spectators that you'll start the race a couple of hours early knowing they have train ticket that won't let them get to the track to see the races is a tough call.

The typhoon was first spoken of on Monday, by Thursday it was a near certainty that it would affect the race on Sunday, by Friday people were openly asking if the race would be moved to Saturday or 11am Sunday morning. Honda had plenty of time to move the race, inform the fans and honour the Sunday tickets for a 11am Sunday start. Suzuka usually has a strong three day attendance and many tickets are Sat&Sun tickets so many of the race day ticket holders would have had Saturday tickets already. The fans also have to leave the circuit and get safely home so I'm sure they would not have minded moving the start time/day. (I realise that sounds more abrupt than intended, sorry)

And what, the train company would just have to all them to move their tickets as well - perhaps requiring extra trains to be put on...the impression I got from the BBC coverage was that the ability of people to get TO the circuit was a large part of the consideration.