2016 German Grand Prix - Hockenheim, 29-31 July

[Juzh]

But he can't be so prone to slumps in form. I know, all top drivers go through them, but he does not seem to be in the zone right now. He can't have another 2014. He can't get beaten by Kimi or, if he does beat Kimi, it can't be by a small margin. Seb should be in his prime and it's the general consensus that Kimi is past his. His reputation will take another big hit if he gets beat. I don't think he's perfectly in-tune with these hybrid cars as PlatinumZealot said.

Looking at points means nothing at the moment. Vettel lost out massivly at the start of the season thanks to external faults. He should have won Australia and Canada. Also he qualified in front of Kimi in Bahrain where he could've gotten another 18-15 points. In Russia he got crashed by Kvyat. These things add up.

This, basically. 3 (!!!) retirements beyond his control + 3 gearbox penalties. Do people just forget those things overnight?

[3jawchuck]

But he can't be so prone to slumps in form. I know, all top drivers go through them, but he does not seem to be in the zone right now. He can't have another 2014. He can't get beaten by Kimi or, if he does beat Kimi, it can't be by a small margin. Seb should be in his prime and it's the general consensus that Kimi is past his. His reputation will take another big hit if he gets beat. I don't think he's perfectly in-tune with these hybrid cars as PlatinumZealot said.

Looking at points means nothing at the moment. Vettel lost out massivly at the start of the season thanks to external faults. He should have won Australia and Canada. Also he qualified in front of Kimi in Bahrain where he could've gotten another 18-15 points. In Russia he got crashed by Kvyat. These things add up.

This, basically. 3 (!!!) retirements beyond his control + 3 gearbox penalties. Do people just forget those things overnight?

Indeed, because "at the end of the season it is only points that matter". Which is true, but not if you really want to compare drivers against each other fairly.

This link shows the picture in a much clearer way:
http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2016/08/04/w ... id-season/

[LionKing]

But he can't be so prone to slumps in form. I know, all top drivers go through them, but he does not seem to be in the zone right now. He can't have another 2014. He can't get beaten by Kimi or, if he does beat Kimi, it can't be by a small margin. Seb should be in his prime and it's the general consensus that Kimi is past his. His reputation will take another big hit if he gets beat. I don't think he's perfectly in-tune with these hybrid cars as PlatinumZealot said.

Looking at points means nothing at the moment. Vettel lost out massivly at the start of the season thanks to external faults. He should have won Australia and Canada. Also he qualified in front of Kimi in Bahrain where he could've gotten another 18-15 points. In Russia he got crashed by Kvyat. These things add up.

This, basically. 3 (!!!) retirements beyond his control + 3 gearbox penalties. Do people just forget those things overnight?

Lewis was outscored by Button at McLaren! Vettel had almost the double points of Kimi last year so I am sure when the partnership ends Vettel will not see similar kind of embarrassment against Kimi.

[notsofast]

That's the nature of F1. When the team isn't performing, it's difficult for the driver to turn his own potential into points. Good luck doesn't turn bad drivers into champions, but bad luck (as in: being on the wrong team at the wrong time) can certainly keep good drivers from championships.

[PlatinumZealot]

Looking at points means nothing at the moment. Vettel lost out massivly at the start of the season thanks to external faults. He should have won Australia and Canada. Also he qualified in front of Kimi in Bahrain where he could've gotten another 18-15 points. In Russia he got crashed by Kvyat. These things add up.

This, basically. 3 (!!!) retirements beyond his control + 3 gearbox penalties. Do people just forget those things overnight?

Lewis was outscored by Button at McLaren! Vettel had almost the double points of Kimi last year so I am sure when the partnership ends Vettel will not see similar kind of embarrassment against Kimi.

It is only one season when Lewis still had the same number of wins and more pole positions as Jenson... not really a good comparison. Based on performance Lewis was still quicker but more error prone. The concern I have for Vettel is that he is both error prone and lacking pace with the car this year.

And for this formula it would be 2 out of 3 bad years. This is not what people expected of Vettel going into these regs. I was one of those that thought these regs would be perfect for him. I mean is it too much of a stretch to blame his persistent imbalance issues and errors with the SF16-T on the regs? Maybe. These cars are children of the regs overall. Bbut here is an interesting snippet I found.

"The way Sebastian works with people in the team, we know that he is doing little things different to the rest," Prost said.

"That gives him an advantage and makes him more confident.

"On the other side, there is a guy like Lewis, who is more of a pure racing driver. I consider Lewis as one of the quickest drivers - maybe one of the best - but is he using his full potential? Maybe not. Maybe next year he will find another motivation, but at the moment he is finding it very hard to beat Sebastian, and I think he should change a little bit."

Formula 1's regulations will be overhauled next season, with 2.4 litre v8 engines replaced by 1.6 litre v6 turbos.

Prost does not believe that the changes will hinder Vettel's chances of sustaining success.

"Before, you had the car in your hands, it was a raw package. But now it is a package that will suit someone like Sebastian. Now you are not driving by yourself. You are going to have all this computerised equipment behind you and you might get a different reaction. Maybe when we meet in March, maybe we will say something different but, at the moment, I have to say that the new regulations will suit Vettel and not Hamilton…"

(Ignore the Hamilton bits fanbois!).. Is it too much to say Vettel does not like these cars? I still think he should have extended the quali and race gap to Kimi in the second year PLUS be more clinical in the race. And these cracks are what concerns me.

[dans79]

And these cracks are what concerns me.

I think Vettel likes a planted rear, and the Ferrari simply doesn't have it. Reminds me how he struggled in early 2012 because of the same issues.

[flickerf1]

And these cracks are what concerns me.

I think Vettel likes a planted rear, and the Ferrari simply doesn't have it. Reminds me how he struggled in early 2012 because of the same issues.

This!

[Juzh]

And these cracks are what concerns me.

I think Vettel likes a planted rear, and the Ferrari simply doesn't have it. Reminds me how he struggled in early 2012 because of the same issues.

Struggled so much so he lead the championship 4 rounds in.

[ClarkBT11]

And these cracks are what concerns me.

I think Vettel likes a planted rear, and the Ferrari simply doesn't have it. Reminds me how he struggled in early 2012 because of the same issues.

I agree, also the physiological side. Times were looking better at Ferrari, winning races last season engine on par with Mercedes start of this season (until Mercedes turns the wick up) now fighting with Redbull instead would seem like a stepback. The team is now falling apart in front of his eyes. Ferrari do not look like willing to wait for a five year plan to fruit like its competitors Redbull and Mercedes have in the past. Vettel questioning the team when to pit shows he has littleconfidence in the team. Plus gearbox problems he's been having I would certainly be writing this season off.

[LionKing]

It is only one season when Lewis still had the same number of wins and more pole positions as Jenson... not really a good comparison. Based on performance Lewis was still quicker but more error prone. The concern I have for Vettel is that he is both error prone and lacking pace with the car this year.

Lewis was outscored in the same car over 3 years (~races), a very significant period of time not just a short, statistically insignificant period...

Out of 12 races this year, Vettel had 3 DNS/DNFs..

Of the 9 races he finished (and he had 2 gearbox grid drops among those races):
He had 3 second places and 2 third places (Better strategy choices probably would not have costed even better finishes in Australia, Spain)
He had 2 fourth places (Monaco, Hungary) and a 5th at Germany. RBR was strong in those tracks. At Monaco he couldn't pass Perez for 3rd, but neither could Lewis last year with Mercedes car and fresh SS tires.

I think the only race he underperformed was 9th @ Silverstone, where his spin and 5 penalty second cost him both significant time and track position in a track difficult to pass. So I don't know why this will be a bad year for Vettel.

As for errors, consider that Mercedes drivers took each other out in one race. Lewis crashed in quali. Kimi and Verstappen crashed out in Monaco race.

[NathanOlder]

It is only one season when Lewis still had the same number of wins and more pole positions as Jenson... not really a good comparison. Based on performance Lewis was still quicker but more error prone. The concern I have for Vettel is that he is both error prone and lacking pace with the car this year.

Lewis was outscored in the same car over 3 years (~races), a very significant period of time not just a short, statistically insignificant period...

.

It still only comes down to Lewis beaten by his team mate once and he has been paired with current world champions twice in his career. points over 3 years mean absolutely nothing, points dont carry over each year do they. If Kimi beats Seb by a few points this year, were not going to hear Seb saying " but my points last year mean im still in front"
Seb is currently paired with the champ of 9 years ago.

[LionKing]

It still only comes down to Lewis beaten by his team mate once, points over 3 years mean absolutely nothing, points dont carry over each year do they. If Kimi beats Seb by a few points this year, were not going to hear Seb saying " but my points last year mean im still in front"

It is not about points carrying over or not. It is about how they performed with the same machinery over that period.

[Juzh]

5 penalty second cost him both significant time and track position

5s penalty didn't cost him anything in the end. he was 6s in front of car behind him at the line.

[Jolle]

It still only comes down to Lewis beaten by his team mate once, points over 3 years mean absolutely nothing, points dont carry over each year do they. If Kimi beats Seb by a few points this year, were not going to hear Seb saying " but my points last year mean im still in front"

It is not about points carrying over or not. It is about how they performed with the same machinery over that period.

He had one crap year, even in interviews he stated it was a year full of illness, not focused, etc etc.
Bit strange, after 9 ½ seasons, being on top of his teammates in all but one, you'll almost implying that he's worthy.

[LionKing]

5 penalty second cost him both significant time and track position

5s penalty didn't cost him anything in the end. he was 6s in front of car behind him at the line.

But before the penalty applied he finished under 1 second behind Sainz as well.
He was classified just under 15 seconds from Perez in 6th. Bottomline, without the mistakes he would have and should have gotten 6th place at British GP.