McLaren MP4-12C

[andrew]

No car is worth being neutered for. I'm happy keeping hold of both my nads.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

But Andrew,

Those nads would not be getting much excercise. My "no nads" would be excercised 24/7 with a Pagani!(yes Im shallow!)

[andrew]

Well at least you won't need to worry about wire fences when you're out sky diving.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Parachutes? Planes?

12C or Pagani in my garage and Im driving!

[alelanza]

There is a boot. It's in the nose and is bigger than you normally get in these sorts of cars.

Oh, i thought that was still called the bonnet, but i guess you would still call it a boot? nevermind me...

That's your choice - if you someday have the money, enjoy your 458

Well, i only said it would sway me towards the 458, but if someday i do have the money, i'd make sure to give both a bit of a go before making up my mind. Who knows, i may find the mp4-12c 'has a heart' or any of the other Clarkson cliches

[HampusA]

New head to head test. 458 Italia vs MP4-12C.

1.20.6
1.19.3

Yes the red beauty once again trumped the super fine Mclaren.

I respect the build philosophy Mclaren has taken with this car with its super high tech electronics and it´s carbon tub.

But for me, nothing beats a 125hp per litre flatplane V8 screaming at 9K rpms.
It stupid quick through the shifts and the noise.. Video doesn´t even make it justice.

Evo.co.uk Bedford Autodrome

[Lurk]

They also said that.

More troubling for Mclaren are reports magazine testers found the handling "unrewarding", the brakes laking feel and the ride "citroen like" (yikes) at regular road speeds. at fast road speeds the MP4 "...suddenly feels all at sea, with only moderate loadings to deal with, the strange Citroen like ride reactions are back and the chassis feels out of tune with road''

Very strange for a car who was fully acclaimed in March... Do McLaren totally change its setup or is it something else?

[HampusA]

It´s the active brakes i presume.

Humans doesn´t like computers taking care of what they are fully capable of what they can do themselves.

Just a guess though but my guess is that, like some Porsches, it´s too sterile and trying to help the driver to much.

[Just_a_fan]

They also said that.

More troubling for Mclaren are reports magazine testers found the handling "unrewarding", the brakes laking feel and the ride "citroen like" (yikes) at regular road speeds. at fast road speeds the MP4 "...suddenly feels all at sea, with only moderate loadings to deal with, the strange Citroen like ride reactions are back and the chassis feels out of tune with road''

Very strange for a car who was fully acclaimed in March... Do McLaren totally change its setup or is it something else?

Where is that quote from?

Every review I've seen has said how great the ride and handling are (ESP-off notwithstanding).

[Just_a_fan]

It´s the active brakes i presume.

Humans doesn´t like computers taking care of what they are fully capable of what they can do themselves.

Just a guess though but my guess is that, like some Porsches, it´s too sterile and trying to help the driver to much.

I was thingking about this too. It's funny how all of the journos (and many others in here and elsewhere) have been moaning about not being able to turn off the ESP system in the McLaren but are happy that it and it's rivals all have non-manual gearboxes.

It seems to me that there's still a real joy in getting a perfect gear change, especially when heel-and-toe downchanging in to a corner for example. Perhaps they're only interested in "going sideways out of the corner with lots of tyre smoke from tyres we don't pay for but it looks like we're gods in the pictures" rather than the whole "setting it up correctly on the way in, getting maximum drive and performance on the way out; it's the safest, quickest way but doesn't sell magazines" that used to be considered enjoyable.

Perhaps McLaren built a car for grown-ups and forgot that motoring journos are mostly just big teenagers these days...

Oh, and what "active brakes" are you referring to? The brake-steer system or the ceramics? Iron discs are available and are, apparently, lighter too...

[Pandamasque]

You don't even have to watch the videos. The still frames kind of sum everything up.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yv7DFwo4YQg[/youtube][youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cI1WYRiZ ... ture=feedu[/youtube]

[Muulka]

I have to say that I think that the Ferrari sounds horrible.... Too flat. The McLaren sounds so much more beefy!

And everyone should remember that the 12C is McLaren's first attempt at a road car since the F1, and that wasn't exactly conventonal, or really a road car...

From what I've seen (and heard), I think that I'd have the Mac.

And let's just wait until they reveal their hypercar!

[Just_a_fan]

Plato makes an interesting point about the McLaren; that you need to drive it as McLaren designed it but that's not how he drives. Other reviews have mentioned that getting the best from the car means driving it in a certain way. Looks like that might be where McLaren have gone wrong (if you want to think that way) - they've built a car for them or rather the engineers have built a car for them. A "closed" car if you will. Ferrari have just designed a more "open" car which appeals to more people. That seems much more sensible and will help sales figures although I have no doubt McLaren will sell the -12C well enough. I wouldn't be surprised to see changes made in response to the issues raised by the various road tests (and customer feedback). And McLaren will provide these to existing car owners for free without doubt.

I wouldn't be surprised to hear the hypercar team were doing some careful re-evaluations of their design too.

Ron will read every review and will ensure the same doesn't happen again, of that we can be sure. The guy is much too focussed to allow the teams to mess up a second time.

Interesting watching the 458 in-car. Not sure I'd be laughing at opposite locking my way around a 140mph corner! "New trousers please Nurse!"

[munudeges]

Plato can say what we likes, but you only need to look at how much steering movement he was putting in with the Ferrari versus the McLaren. I bet if he was racing both cars and, as looks like, the McLaren is faster he would change his tune.

[Harvey]

Plato makes an interesting point about the McLaren; that you need to drive it as McLaren designed it but that's not how he drives. Other reviews have mentioned that getting the best from the car means driving it in a certain way. Looks like that might be where McLaren have gone wrong (if you want to think that way) - they've built a car for them or rather the engineers have built a car for them. A "closed" car if you will. Ferrari have just designed a more "open" car which appeals to more people. That seems much more sensible and will help sales figures although I have no doubt McLaren will sell the -12C well enough. I wouldn't be surprised to see changes made in response to the issues raised by the various road tests (and customer feedback). And McLaren will provide these to existing car owners for free without doubt.

I wouldn't be surprised to hear the hypercar team were doing some careful re-evaluations of their design too.

Ron will read every review and will ensure the same doesn't happen again, of that we can be sure. The guy is much too focussed to allow the teams to mess up a second time.

Interesting watching the 458 in-car. Not sure I'd be laughing at opposite locking my way around a 140mph corner! "New trousers please Nurse!"

Porsche seem to be doing pretty well with their 911, and the different driving style that requires/deserves. Why should Mclaren make a car Ferrari fans can drive?

Why would Mac change anything? They've created a car that, from the current crop of road tests at least, seems to be a complete world beater, a true "everyday supercar". It only ever seems to lose out to the Ferrari because of a feeling of being too distant from the car at the ragged edge. But, as has been said in this thread all ready, no one who buys these cars actually spends their time arse-out round endless roundabouts in a plume of tyre smoke. For a driving experience track day, yeah I'd pick the keys to the 458 over the 12C, but to actually live with and, potentially, drive to work/shops/Geneva I'd pick the 12C.

To me it's quite saddening that Mclaren have built this car, as it appears to be the car everyone has wanted Lotus to create for past decade.