European GP 2010 - Valencia

[komninosm]

Wait, Michael was waved through? By the safety car? Where were the Ferraris then? I'm confused

Dont you know senior citizens are allways given a waive by the SC?

actually thats a good catch... so why was he waived by and not the SF cars

I am seeing the race again and it did seem that the SC stopped near the start line and waved through all cars till Vettel. So I don't understand why Hamilton got a penalty or why the Ferraris didn't pass it before a full lap.
Seems weird.

Seriously guys, can someone explain the rules about this to me?
And while you're at it, how about the 5 second penalty invention?

[komninosm]

Well clearly there should be no penalty because the Safety Car crossed the pit exit line.

Haha - I like this!

I think there were couple of things happening there: 1) SC actually crossed the line for an instant. 2) Hamilton slowed down then accelerated.

I don't know why he slowed down. He might have thought the SC will actually cross the line and block him, or he might have tried to perfectly time when he passes the car so that Alonso would get stuck behind it while he did his lap.

Whatever the case, Alonso did not slow down fully, either. He put his car between the SC and the medic car - so much for respect to the emergency...

I don't think we can rule out quick thinking from Hamilton to "block" Alonso like that, but it's an unprovable proposition sadly (unless he confesses), so we have to assume innocence.
Nice of you to point out how the SC was also behaving erratically. I think it should have let them all pass it. It was probably confused and thought they were the leaders.
Also nice that you point out how Alonso split the medic car from the SC. I don't think it was entirely his fault, but it was at least partly his fault.

[PlatinumZealot]

Kamui. who's Kamui? Is it not Charlie Whiting who helped Ham?

Kamui Kobayashi. Perhaps you specify how you think that Charlie Whiting helped Hamilton. Race control had their hands full with cleaning up after Webber's accident. When Alonso complained the breach of the SC rule was dealt with and that was it. No "help" seen anywhere.

I'm tempted to say you are being baited by an obvious troll after the language used and the lack of knowledge or logic, but sadly I'm not that optimistic about the human race any more

I dislike the word troll. Maybe it's just me, and I;m not really directing this to you, but I find calls on trolling more annoying than trolling itself. If a guy wants to "troll" you don't have to answer, in fact sometimes one can see things from a different point of view from these "trolls." This different point of view makes the thread more varied, it's good that others can say what they feel in a non offensive manner. Just shoot down the "trolls" claim if you want or just leave it alone.

[PlatinumZealot]

Come to think of it, it looked like Alonso would have taken a shot at beating the safety car too.

[zenithbeach]

I dislike the word troll. Maybe it's just me, and I;m not really directing this to you, but I find calls on trolling more annoying than trolling itself. [...]Just shoot down the "trolls" claim if you want or just leave it alone.

nope, its not just you

[komninosm]

Kamui Kobayashi. Perhaps you specify how you think that Charlie Whiting helped Hamilton. Race control had their hands full with cleaning up after Webber's accident. When Alonso complained the breach of the SC rule was dealt with and that was it. No "help" seen anywhere.

I'm tempted to say you are being baited by an obvious troll after the language used and the lack of knowledge or logic, but sadly I'm not that optimistic about the human race any more

I dislike the word troll. Maybe it's just me, and I;m not really directing this to you, but I find calls on trolling more annoying than trolling itself. If a guy wants to "troll" you don't have to answer, in fact sometimes one can see things from a different point of view from these "trolls." This different point of view makes the thread more varied, it's good that others can say what they feel in a non offensive manner. Just shoot down the "trolls" claim if you want or just leave it alone.

I can see where you're coming from, it sure becomes annoying sometimes, though technically I implied he wasn't a troll, not that he was one (if you read carefully). But I think there are some cases when people hurl troll as an unjustified insult against others and in other cases it is quite warranted. You can't lump it all together like you did. There's difference of opinion and then there's crazy-talk.

[WhiteBlue]

I don't know why he slowed down. He might have thought the SC will actually cross the line and block him, or he might have tried to perfectly time when he passes the car so that Alonso would get stuck behind it while he did his lap.

I don't think we can rule out quick thinking from Hamilton to "block" Alonso like that, but it's an unprovable proposition sadly (unless he confesses), so we have to assume innocence.

As already pointed out nobody can prove that Hamilton's "slow down" was a blocking attempt. I don't think that Charlie would report this to the stewards unless there was a formal complaint. And as there was no such thing the stewards only punished the safety car violation.

So I cannot see an irregularity in the actions of race control or the stewards. The only deviation from the usual was the 5s mass penalty and I thought that was a discretionary decision. To speak of manipulation is far off the mark.

[Poleman]

Theres a car flying 5ft+ above the ground and you guys are talking about difuser holes. Only in F1T.

When i saw it on TV happening 3 thoughts came in my mind (in order of appearence)...

1)RB6 underbody/floor
2)Praying for Mark to get out of there in one piece [-o<
3)Calculating the losses/gains in the WCC

[raymondu999]

3)Calculating the losses/gains in the WCC

Interesting that you did that for the WCC but not the WDC

[Poleman]

3)Calculating the losses/gains in the WCC

Interesting that you did that for the WCC but not the WDC

As a McLaren supporter based on the clasification at that moment i was concerned about WCC...

[myurr]

As already pointed out nobody can prove that Hamilton's "slow down" was a blocking attempt. I don't think that Charlie would report this to the stewards unless there was a formal complaint. And as there was no such thing the stewards only punished the safety car violation.

So I cannot see an irregularity in the actions of race control or the stewards. The only deviation from the usual was the 5s mass penalty and I thought that was a discretionary decision. To speak of manipulation is far off the mark.

Alonso himself is not accusing Hamilton of slowing to block him, he is upset that Hamilton passed the safety car at all:

Then the safety car came out, which wasn't too good for us, but Hamilton overtook the safety car, something that I had never seen, overtaking the medical car with yellow flags.

To me Alonso is either lying about his knowledge of the rules or was ignorant of the second safety car line. After all what he is complaining about is that Hamilton was a metre or two behind this white line when he passed:


Had Hamilton been two metres further up the road then there would have been no penalty. Also you can see in this picture that Alonso wasn't close to making it past - something that is even more clear in the video as you can see Hamilton hesitate which makes Alonso close up to the point in the still image above from much further back.

[mr moda]

The Webber incident means that Red Bull will have better chances now with Vettel and Webber brought it all on himself. He ruined Kovalainen's race with that stunt, but I'm very glad he was unhurt in that spectacular back flip.

Alright I will ask if no-one else will. Why WB? What pearls of wisdom bring you to this statement.

[WhiteBlue]

The Webber incident means that Red Bull will have better chances now with Vettel and Webber brought it all on himself. He ruined Kovalainen's race with that stunt, but I'm very glad he was unhurt in that spectacular back flip.

Why WB? What pearls of wisdom bring you to this statement.

Vettel leads Webber in the points table and still gets better odds from the bookies. Better odds means better chances. Besides Webber will have to do the catching up now. In Valencia Vettel was the faster driver. I expect that to be the case in England as well.

[myurr]

The Webber incident means that Red Bull will have better chances now with Vettel and Webber brought it all on himself. He ruined Kovalainen's race with that stunt, but I'm very glad he was unhurt in that spectacular back flip.

Why WB? What pearls of wisdom bring you to this statement.

Vettel leads Webber in the points table and still gets better odds from the bookies. Better odds means better chances. Besides Webber will have to do the catching up now. In Valencia Vettel was the faster driver. I expect that to be the case in England as well.

Come on now, it's only 12 points which could switch if Vettel has a single DNF. Do you think that McLaren should stop supporting Button, Mercedes should stop supporting Schumacher, etc.?

The championship is still wide open and all drivers with a mathematical chance of winning still deserve the full support of their teams.

[tok-tokkie]

Q. (Stephane Barbé – L'Equipe) Can you comment a little bit on this penalty with the safety car? Did you see the car coming out of the pits? Did you hesitate to overtake it?

LH: No, when I came down the straight, I was accelerating, I didn't see the safety car coming out and then as I came round turn one, we know that obviously the safety car was out but I was able to push until the safety car two line, I think, and at that point I saw the safety car alongside me and I thought I was passed, so when I noticed it, he was already behind and so I continued.

Now he's lying. In the replay you can clearly see him slow down immdeiately and then take off and pass the SC.

There has been a lot of discussion about LH & the SC. It is this post where LH really does appear to be lying that started it but it seems some posters here have not read it as it is from many pages ago. Clearly he hesitates yet he says I was able to push until the safety car.
For the record: I am wanting LH to win the championship but now have reservations.

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About the 5 second penalty. The 10 second penalty applies to a stop go penalty (the rule was quoted earlier). The time addition penalty seems to be entirely at the stewards discretion (I have not read the regulations for it).