Ferrari F2012

[joeyg02]

I think what he is trying to say is that depending on the circuit the "DDRS" could be just as, if not more efficient of an update to the car.

[zyphro]

Normal updates for the car is SO much better then DDRS.

LOl, you sound like you have no idea what you are talking about, but I see your point although later in the year we will get some circuits which the DDRS will be immense at, i'm sure they have a model of it already and some R&D on it like half of the teams on the grid and Mclaren's even might be used this week.

What makes me sound like i dont know what im talking about? Its not like i can sit and mention and write down every part of the car that would be better of with updates then going for a DDRS. Also its not like Mercedes have dominated on circuits with long straigts so far this year.

You do know having a high amount of SL speed, allows them to compromise their top-end speed for more DF?

Re. long straight circuits, how about China?

[zyphro]

I think what he is trying to say is that depending on the circuit the "DDRS" could be just as, if not more efficient of an update to the car.

I don't see how he is alluding to that:

"Normal updates for the car is SO much better then DDRS."

There is no proviso relating to the type of circuit, rather an illogical generalisation.

[alogoc]

DDRS is very good for Monza and Canada not so much because of top speed but also because of braking stability that DDRS provides,therefore tires gets much less destroyed during braking!

[Huntresa]

Its gonna be gr8 at the end of the season when the only team running DDRS is Mercedes.

[Cuky]

DDRS is very good for Monza and Canada not so much because of top speed but also because of braking stability that DDRS provides,therefore tires gets much less destroyed during braking!

I don't see how DDRS can benefit braking stability...DRS, and therefore DDRS is closed whan braking.
Also, I don't think that DDRS would make so much difference at Montreal and Monza, as those are low downforce tracks and gains from DRS are lower than on medium/high downforce tracks.

Also, I think it is better to concentrate on further development of wings, diffuser, exhaust and rear end packaging than to waste resources on something car was not designed for.

[alogoc]

DDRS is very good for Monza and Canada not so much because of top speed but also because of braking stability that DDRS provides,therefore tires gets much less destroyed during braking!

I don't see how DDRS can benefit braking stability...DRS, and therefore DDRS is closed whan braking.
Also, I don't think that DDRS would make so much difference at Montreal and Monza, as those are low downforce tracks and gains from DRS are lower than on medium/high downforce tracks.

Also, I think it is better to concentrate on further development of wings, diffuser, exhaust and rear end packaging than to waste resources on something car was not designed for.

than you are not instructed well enough!!

DDRS does help braking stability very much!

Source:Ross Brawn,Paddy Love,Pat Fry!

Unless you know better!?

[aral]

DDRS is very good for Monza and Canada not so much because of top speed but also because of braking stability that DDRS provides,therefore tires gets much less destroyed during braking!

As soon as the brakes are touched, and if the ddrs was deployed in trying to pass another car, the ddrs is turned off, so how on earth could it provide braking stability?

This is all hypothesis, and the benefits of the ddrs have not been proven.

Mods, please remove all this to a speculation or ddrs thread, and lets get back to facts.

[N12ck]

when the car opens drs normally the aero balance shifts forward, (creating instability in braking)

when a car opens ddrs the aero balance is shifted forward less, due to reduced downforce on both front and rear wings rather than just rear wing,

with ddrs this removes alot of the instability in braking after opening drs,

EDIT:
when the car touches its brakes, the drs shuts and aerobalance has to return to normal within a split second (this creates that instability)

[Red Schneider]

@algooc

Would this be because DDRS maintains a more normal weight distribution as opposed to the unnaturally forward distribution of DRS? Obviously both close when the brakes are applied but I could see DRS being harder to handle.

Edit: I guess Nick sort of answered my question.

[N12ck]

Is this because of the more normal weight distribution created by DDRS as opposed to the unnaturally forward distribution of DRS? Obviously they close when the brakes are applied but I could see what you're talking about.

its not weight distribution but down force ratio from the rear of the car to the front,

lets take a hypothetical extreme example (not realistic whatsoever) : say your downforce ratio is:
Rear front
5 : 3

with drs open normally this then becomes something like this:
Rear front
2 : 3

so that means your your overall downforce has been shifted forward on the car, which means when you shut your drs your downforce ratio returns to normall in a split second, so its like someone throws a huge weight along the car in a split second which creates instability in breaking,,

this example isnt the best (alot will look at this as inaccurate) however I cant think of a better example, the principle is correct, however I just cant explain it brilliantly, its just an analogy

[Red Schneider]

Thanks. I meant weight distribution including the aero effects, but maybe that's sloppy terminology.

It makes sense that DDRS would make it easier for the driver under braking.

[bhall]

With normal DRS, the car's center of pressure shifts forward when it's engaged, because downforce from the rear wing is shed while downforce from the front wing remains the same. A Daffy Duct somewhat, but not completely, mitigates the effects of this shift by shedding downforce from the front wing, too. The result then is a reduced-drag car rather than merely a reduced-drag rear end. (And, obviously, less drag overall.)

There's a catch, though. The system must be appropriately tuned so that air flow over the front and rear wings detach and reattach at about the same time when DDDDDRs is engaged and disengaged. Otherwise, you've just added undue instability to your car for a system whose effects are really quite limited and is nowhere nearly as important as good tire management - which positively abhors instability.

(If I'm repeating things, it's only because I'm a visual learner, and I need to see things spelled out in a way that helps me to understand.)

[N12ck]

With normal DRS, the car's center of pressure shifts forward when it's engaged, because downforce from the rear wing is shed while downforce from the front wing remains the same. A Daffy Duct somewhat, but not completely, mitigates the effects of this shift by shedding downforce from the front wing, too. The result then is a reduced-drag car rather than merely a reduced-drag rear end. (And, obviously, less drag overall.)

There's a catch, though. The system must be appropriately tuned so that air flow over the front and rear wings detach and reattach at about the same time when DDDDDRs is engaged and disengaged. Otherwise, you've just added undue instability to your car for a system whose effects are really quite limited and is nowhere nearly as important as good tire management - which positively abhors instability.

(If I'm repeating things, it's only because I'm a visual learner, and I need to see things spelled out in a way that helps me to understand.)

You have said what I tried to say but ten times clearer!

[raymondu999]

I don't think there's much, or even noticeable, effect. At such high speeds the downforce already squashes out the instability anyways - even with DRS open. It's when you get to the last dregs of the braking zone when braking instability really comes to play as the downforce bleeds out - hence why you slam the brakes on full initially, and rolling off the brakes as the downforce bleeds off.