British GP 2011 - Silverstone

[raymondu999]

Surely though, there should be a sweet "optimum" spot?

I mean, too high and yes, you can run flat out, but you'd be forced to run with quite high fuel effect, and it would help to kill your tyres earlier.

Too low and you can be very fast at the start (due to being light) and you'd suffer less tyre deg due to being lighter, but you'd be forced to fuel save too much at the end for your early pace to mean nothing.

Surely there's a sweet spot somewhere in between?

[raymondu999]

Horner could call Webber to overtake Vettel and say Vettel he shall no defend himself.
They have 2nd and 3rd place secure and Webber gains some more points.

So FOR ME that was a vettel favor.

But FOR ME, asking Vettel "Let Mark past" would be like Hockenheim last year with Alonso and Massa, and would have been a favor to Mark (like it was last year to Alonso)

[Traction]

Horner could call Webber to overtake Vettel and say Vettel he shall no defend himself.
They have 2nd and 3rd place secure and Webber gains some more points.

So FOR ME that was a vettel favor.

But FOR ME, asking Vettel "Let Mark past" would be like Hockenheim last year with Alonso and Massa, and would have been a favor to Mark (like it was last year to Alonso)

Touché ....

[djos]

There should not have been team orders period!! As per RBR's apparently now optional policy, they should have been allowed to race each other without any team orders interfering!

[raymondu999]

There should not have been team orders period!! As per RBR's apparently now optional policy, they should have been allowed to race each other without any team orders interfering!

I concur with you 100% Djos

[ringo]

Or perhaps Hamilton left his engine on the richer setting for longer than planned.

No he was just driving faster.

I think if a driver is faster, it is because he is braking later; coming of the gas later.
He is coasting less in the turn.
and He is getting on the gas earlier becuase he is confident in the rear end.

Looking on what it takes to have a faster lap time is inextricably linked to the engine's use of the fuel.

It's the same for having more downforce. You're on the gas earlier out of the turn, coasting less, and braking later.

So a faster driver will use more fuel all for being faster.
A faster car, all things like aero efficiency, enginge efficiency, being equal will have to consume more fuel because it's on the gas when others are on the brakes or coasting.

Saying all this, it's safe to say the average speed of the race is the best indicator for a fuel consumption calculation.

Hamilton's average speed was higher than the team thought; at least up to the point where he had to save. And in fact, his average speed would have been much higher had he been fueled properly.

Average speeds is pretty good at taking into account things like safety cars, traffic, degrading tyres, as the engine is being run differently for all these things.

[Caito]

I agree it would be more interesting without team orders, but it would be totally impossible to police them.

Magic words, coded phrases etc would give the team order. And a driver can say: I didn't offer much ressitance because I didn't want to crash with my team driver.

[CHT]

Looking at the results of the 8 races before British GP, Webber should acknowledge that his chance of winning the WDC in 2011 is pretty much over and Vettel is the deserving no.1 driver in RBR for 2011.

If Webber wants to prove his worth on the track, why not pick someone else other than his own teammate?

Webber
Australian 5
Malaysian 4
Chinese 3
Turkish 2
Spanish 4
Monaco 4
Canadian 3
European 3


Vettel
Australian 1
Malaysian 1
Chinese 2
Turkish 1
Spanish 1
Monaco 1
Canadian 2
European 1

[Jeffsvilleusa]

There's never anyone else to pick from but the guy in front of you!

[raymondu999]

But that could also be due to lighter fueling though.

[vall]

As I remember it Alonso was on the tail of Massa attempting to overtake! He did not need Massa to slow down to catch him.

As I recall Massa had built a god lead then Alonso suddenly started going faster while Massa slowed. I think they used fuel saving for Massa to make it appear that Alonso was faster. We saw the same with Hamilton v Button in Turkey with different engine maps.

you recall wrong! Alonso was following Massa closely at the beginning, then allowed about 3sec gap (I think to avoid engine overheating if he stayed close), which he later closed in a matter of just a few laps. I think nobody should doubt Fred is faster than Massa. In the past Massa occasionally has been faster than both Shummy and Kimmi, but so far he has never outpaced Fred in a clean race. The only times Massa was ahead was then Fred had accidents or bad starts. That's it. Maybe last year he out-qualified Fred once or twice, I don't remember, but I might have been after Fred's mistakes or something.

[SiLo]

As I remember it Alonso was on the tail of Massa attempting to overtake! He did not need Massa to slow down to catch him.

As I recall Massa had built a god lead then Alonso suddenly started going faster while Massa slowed. I think they used fuel saving for Massa to make it appear that Alonso was faster. We saw the same with Hamilton v Button in Turkey with different engine maps.

you recall wrong! Alonso was following Massa closely at the beginning, then allowed about 3sec gap (I think to avoid engine overheating if he stayed close), which he later closed in a matter of just a few laps. I think nobody should doubt Fred is faster than Massa. In the past Massa occasionally has been faster than both Shummy and Kimmi, but so far he has never outpaced Fred in a clean race. The only times Massa was ahead was then Fred had accidents or bad starts. That's it. Maybe last year he out-qualified Fred once or twice, I don't remember, but I might have been after Fred's mistakes or something.

If Alonso was so fast, why didn't he just overtake him? Exactly.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Silo

You dont recall Felipe blocking on a couple of sections?

Ferrari would rather drink Red Bull than watch Massa block another Ferrari. The result would have been the same or Alonso would have lost a front wing/Massa a puncture scenario.
Historical precedant suggests that Alonso will 9/10ths of the time always be faster than Massa, and, Massa was not in going to spearhead a championship CHALLENGE either.
Alonso can.

Vettel is leading by a huge margin, what difference is there when you still can be champion finishing 3rd from here on in? Red Bull were also very vocal against Ferrari tactics, now they do the same thing in a hugely more powerful position.

If he were chasing Alonso, I would understand. But the actions did not reflect his championship standings and I feel Red Bull owe a detailed explanation to Webber, Red Bull and F1 fans....just my feelings.

[747heavy]

well, it´s not the place IMO to discuss morality, so I will just put forward a very pragmatic view.
First things first, assume nothing is what my old boss whould say.
Maybe Vettels lead looks solid, but who knows, maybe he falls of his bike tomorrow or got run over by a bus. Sit out 3 GP´s and then it gets tight.
Why take any chances. If he has his WDC secured, the team can, and perhaps will worry about Webbers 2nd place. As sooner they have it sorted, as sooner they can assist Wbber in securing second. There will be ample time to give thsi 3-5 points back to him, if this is all what matters.
Sure, I can understand the morality outcry, but c´mon, we know that F1 is not known to worry too much about moral values.

Sure Horner and to an extent Mateschitz shoot of her mouth a bit, because they could not pass up the chance to have a cheep shot at Ferrari last year.
This stuff will allways come back to bite you sooner or later, before you say something, ask yourself: Does it help me to achieve my goal, or is it just make me feel good for a moment? If the later, don´t say it.

Hate them or love them, at least Ferrari don´t make any bones about it, that´s respectable in a way. Because they don´t take people for a ride.

[Mandrake]

Exactly my thoughts 747. Seal the WDC which is also important for the team as well as the WCC. There is nothing to win being 2nd in WDC. 2nd is the first loser, nobody goes to a party saying "Hi, I came 2nd in the F1 WDC".... know what I mean?