2012 Exhaust Blowing & Coanda

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Adrian Newby
Adrian Newby
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Joined: 07 Feb 2012, 23:05

Re: Red Bull RB8 Renault

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I believe that was Scarbs' earlier, pre-testing take on things, based on the rules as he read them. I don't think he imagined the lengths the teams would go to to try to seal the diffusers, or how much latitude they might have in doing so.
Last edited by Adrian Newby on 12 Mar 2012, 17:29, edited 2 times in total.

Adrian Newby
Adrian Newby
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Joined: 07 Feb 2012, 23:05

Re: 2012 Exhaust Blowing

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Crucial_Xtreme wrote:Newby can you answer or explain this? How off track or dead wrong am I?

Without sounding like a complete dummy, why is the air getting pushed further aft, assuming you mean towards the coke bottle?
This is why I asked you that question last night mate.
Isn't the air coming over the sidepods more plentiful & thus stronger than the air going around the sidepods?

What I'm saying is, wouldn't the air over the top of the sidepods act almost as a barrier to the flow coming around the sidepods(considering it takes slightly longer to get there) hence keeping the airflow on the same path it has at low speeds only higher up(just over brake fin area)??
Yes, that will happen as you say. Red Bull have even placed a rather large bulge in the bodywork just above the sidepods/exhaust channel to encourage even more outward push/barrier by this air. I'm just not sure this (and their other efforts) is going to be effective all the way through the speed range. Or that they want it to be.

hardingfv32
hardingfv32
35
Joined: 03 Apr 2011, 19:42

Re: 2012 Exhaust Blowing

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Adrian Newby wrote: I'm just not sure this (and their other efforts) is going to be effective all the way through the speed range. Or that they want it to be.
That is an insightful quote... did you mean to say I have no idea what is going on or what the team is trying to do. Why are you bothering to post then?

Please provide a aerodynamic explanation for why the airflow on the top would ever want to come downward towards the end of the side-pod.

I view the top and side of the front section of the side-pod as having similar surface area and thus similar flows. Now when you get to the rear, the side of the side-pod tappers to almost nothing while the top retains some of its original width. The flow along the side has no where to go but up into the top flow. There is no migration downward.

Brian

Adrian Newby
Adrian Newby
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Joined: 07 Feb 2012, 23:05

Re: 2012 Exhaust Blowing

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hardingfv32 wrote:
Why are you bothering to post then?

Brian
Why ask a question of someone you don't think should bother posting?

hardingfv32
hardingfv32
35
Joined: 03 Apr 2011, 19:42

Re: 2012 Exhaust Blowing

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Adrian Newby wrote:Why ask a question of someone you don't think should bother posting?
Is this a temporary answer until you formulate something to respond to: an aerodynamic explanation for why the airflow on the top would ever want to come downward towards the end of the side-pod.

Brian

Adrian Newby
Adrian Newby
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Joined: 07 Feb 2012, 23:05

Re: 2012 Exhaust Blowing

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Oh, so I am worthy to talk on your board now? Gee, thanks. :roll:

hardingfv32
hardingfv32
35
Joined: 03 Apr 2011, 19:42

Re: 2012 Exhaust Blowing

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Adrian Newby wrote:Oh, so I am worthy to talk on your board now? Gee, thanks. :roll:
The request is simple: Please provide a aerodynamic explanation for why the airflow on the top would ever want to come downward towards the end of the side-pod.

Brian

cossie
cossie
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Joined: 24 Aug 2007, 17:32

Re: 2012 Exhaust Blowing

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can't a lot of your 2's disagreements be done via pm's :?: :?: :idea: :idea: #-o

Adrian Newby
Adrian Newby
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Joined: 07 Feb 2012, 23:05

Re: 2012 Exhaust Blowing

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cossie wrote:can't a lot of your 2's disagreements be done via pm's :?: :?: :idea: :idea: #-o
Or not at all? There is a reason Brian doesn't get his answers.
Last edited by Adrian Newby on 12 Mar 2012, 18:52, edited 1 time in total.

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Pierce89
60
Joined: 21 Oct 2009, 18:38

Re: Red Bull RB8 Renault

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bhallg2k wrote:[My comments made much more sense within the context - and thread - in which they were posted. In the future, please delete my comments outright if they're summarily deemed immaterial to their respective discussions rather than move them and render the thoughts completely neutered. Thank you.]
I could not agree more. I hate when when one of my posts(normally a response to someone else's post)gets moved but without the surrounding posts(or whatever I was responding to). It makes me look like some fool with Tourette's(sic?) syndrome, just blurting crap out.
“To be able to actually make something is awfully nice”
Bruce McLaren on building his first McLaren racecars, 1970

“I've got to be careful what I say, but possibly to probably Juan would have had a bigger go”
Sir Frank Williams after the 2003 Canadian GP, where Ralf hesitated to pass brother M. Schumacher

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Pierce89
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Joined: 21 Oct 2009, 18:38

Re: 2012 Exhaust Blowing

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Adrian Newby wrote:
cossie wrote:can't a lot of your 2's disagreements be done via pm's :?: :?: :idea: :idea: #-o
Or not at all?
But, why should people have to shy away from pointing out flaws in a dubious(at best)theory? I don't want other people reading tripe and coming away thinking they've learned about aerodynamics, when in reality, they've just read somebody's fantasy.
Last edited by Pierce89 on 13 Mar 2012, 03:48, edited 1 time in total.
“To be able to actually make something is awfully nice”
Bruce McLaren on building his first McLaren racecars, 1970

“I've got to be careful what I say, but possibly to probably Juan would have had a bigger go”
Sir Frank Williams after the 2003 Canadian GP, where Ralf hesitated to pass brother M. Schumacher

User avatar
Pierce89
60
Joined: 21 Oct 2009, 18:38

Re: 2012 Exhaust Blowing

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flynfrog wrote:
MIKEY_! wrote:Can anyone tell me what the regulations ban collection and redirection? I have looked already and found nothing.
how on earth do you plan to collect anything in an open free stream environment. redirect sure but no way you will collect anything.
It's not in the regs. it's a technical directive from No Fun Charlie.

Edit: Sorry if this has already been answered, but the question keeps coming up. So Here is the answer again:There is no regulation banning exhaust "reingestion". It is banned in a technical directive(one of the famous "clarifications") from Charlie Whiting.
“To be able to actually make something is awfully nice”
Bruce McLaren on building his first McLaren racecars, 1970

“I've got to be careful what I say, but possibly to probably Juan would have had a bigger go”
Sir Frank Williams after the 2003 Canadian GP, where Ralf hesitated to pass brother M. Schumacher

Crucial_Xtreme
Crucial_Xtreme
404
Joined: 16 Oct 2011, 00:13
Location: Charlotte

Re: 2012 Exhaust Blowing

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hardingfv32 wrote:
That is an insightful quote... did you mean to say I have no idea what is going on or what the team is trying to do. Why are you bothering to post then?

Please provide a aerodynamic explanation for why the airflow on the top would ever want to come downward towards the end of the side-pod.

I view the top and side of the front section of the side-pod as having similar surface area and thus similar flows. Now when you get to the rear, the side of the side-pod tappers to almost nothing while the top retains some of its original width. The flow along the side has no where to go but up into the top flow. There is no migration downward.

Brian
Downwash.

Downwash sidepods work by the high pressure created above the chassis and sidepod fronts being directed by the sloping top surface of the sidepod towards the exhaust outlet. Directing this flow over the exhaust creates the bending effect of the exhaust plume. Then detail work with small vanes and brake duct vanes help to keep the plume pointed at the edge of the diffuser and the tyre itself. Of course in some cases, McLaren they're also using the Coanda effect, but the downwashed air is the reason they modified their latest sidepods with a slope directly before the exhaust.

Image

McLaren new slope

Image

Adrian Newby
Adrian Newby
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Joined: 07 Feb 2012, 23:05

Re: 2012 Exhaust Blowing

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Pierce89 wrote:
Adrian Newby wrote:
cossie wrote:can't a lot of your 2's disagreements be done via pm's :?: :?: :idea: :idea: #-o
Or not at all?
But, why should people have to shy away from pointing out flaws in a dubious(at best)theory? I don't want other people reading tripe and coming away thinking they've leared about aerodynamics, when in reality, they've just read somebody's fantasy.
We're talking about the bickering and arguing and B.S., not the genuine discussion.

And, I have much better fantasies than this, I assure you! :lol:

Do you believe Red Bull are trying to seal the diffuser with the exhaust?
Last edited by Adrian Newby on 12 Mar 2012, 20:13, edited 1 time in total.

cossie
cossie
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Joined: 24 Aug 2007, 17:32

Re: Red Bull RB8 Renault

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Pierce89 wrote:
bhallg2k wrote:[My comments made much more sense within the context - and thread - in which they were posted. In the future, please delete my comments outright if they're summarily deemed immaterial to their respective discussions rather than move them and render the thoughts completely neutered. Thank you.]
I could not agree more. I hate when when one of my posts(normally a response to someone else's post)gets moved but without the surrounding posts(or whatever I was responding to). It makes me look like some fool with Tourette's(sic?) syndrome, just blurting crap out.
"just saying" :idea: :idea: :idea: :idea: