2013 Bahrain GP - Sakhir

[SiLo]

Blatant disregard? The DRS is supposedly controlled by FIA software to not be allowed to open up outside a DRS zone. You can't blame a software glitch on Ferrari.

That's like saying "cheating is supposedly controlled by the invigorating to not be done during tests. You can't blame that on the student."

Sure the FiA system was broken. But the facts are that Fernando pushed the button where he shouldn't have. To me that leaves one of two possible explanations:
- he (genuinely) didn't remember that the activation was some way down, and just remembered to use DRS "on the pit straight" - in which case you have to wonder if their qualifying lap was then legal.
- he knew he had an excuse to plead memory shortage against the FiA, and knew that he had a get out of jail free card by saying, "how was I supposed to remember?"

If it was on purpose, I believe we can call it, as Cam says, "blatant disregard." If it was a genuine error - then less of the blame (in a moral/ethical sense) on Fernando. But I'm quite sure Vettel in Abu Dhabi 2012 qualifying and Hamilton in Spain 2012 qualifying were genuine underfueling mistakes too.

It's all run by the FIA system, the drivers could hold the button the entire lap if they want and nothing would happen until the DRS zone. Alonso's system was just broken, to say he cheated is ridiculous when he clearly had to pit twice for the incident and ended up almost at the back of the grid, that was penalty enough I believe.

[raymondu999]

From Alonsos's Twitter interview :

@gabiolivaresb If in a non-DRS area you press the DRS botton does it activate?
FA: No, it doesn’t activate. The DRS is programmed only for the straights where it’s allowed to be used.

It's all run by the FIA system, the drivers could hold the button the entire lap if they want and nothing would happen until the DRS zone. Alonso's system was just broken, to say he cheated is ridiculous when he clearly had to pit twice for the incident and ended up almost at the back of the grid, that was penalty enough I believe.

You two are missing the point - the FiA system was broken since Melbourne. They lost the ability to restrict the DRS with that. The drivers could have activated DRS all through the lap in these first four races. Hence the FiA reverting to an older spec from Barcelona onwards.

Silo- the broken DRS wing happened *after* this incident.

Mandrake - I think you're talking of this very incident. Rosberg's within a second of Vettel, and activated his own DRS at the DRS line.

[Kowalsky]

Big +1 (will have to give it to you on another thread). Very nice pickup. Why then was this overlooked? A mechnaical issues and flagrant disregard, are two separate things. Certainly Ferrari are prepared to have results overturned after the fact (see: Brazil 2012). Worth a protest?

I think this "Big +1" should belong to me.

There should be minimum notification at bottom side of screen during a race, that "Stewards are investigating use of DRS outside DRS zone in case of car No 3", but it wasn't so. I've investigated this issue because everyone was blaming Fernando's bad luck where in fact he has scored 3 points, where in case of any penalty he might get 0.

I do not have access to onboard view, but I think DRS was activated from overtaking on 5th lap till first pit stop. Maybe it wasn't cheating, but he has lost his position because of pitting and not overtaking due to activated DRS. "Failure" is commonly accepted explanation of breaking regulations?

[Cam]

Ray posted pretty clear evidence. Those that know me know I love evidence. Hence his +1 (it's coming Ray). If you put further evidence that confirms, or counters the incidence, you'll prob get a +1 from me too. Evidence, simple to get points.

[Kowalsky]

Dear Cam, there was " " and as I've explained I do not have onboards, just general view.
I was curious, why none start investigation over this concern, before I've started it. Probably because of Sebastian's maximum score.

[Jonnycraig]

I picked up on it during the race, but was surprised to see no one else mention it yet (or if it has been mentioned - I missed it)

Saw it at the time but it looked like Alonso realised and let Rosberg come back past.

[raymondu999]

So as a follow-up to my previous post, here's footage from a lap later.

What is clearly visible now is that Alonso is no longer opening his DRS as early as he was on the preceding lap:


The FOM feed does a fade to an aerial shot just as Alonso is activating his DRS, so it's a bit of a blur when he actually deploys. But I'd say it should be ok in this instance. He's clearly past the black marker board by the time the image comes to full focus:


Just as an aside, we can see that his DRS failure happens when he brakes at the end of the straight after this overtaking move:

[Kowalsky]

Sorry, we can not say DRS on, off base on green background or grey I think.
Please take a look on your last screen DRS is grey, and DRS seems to be ON, or maybe we need next close up after this turn.

[raymondu999]

Sorry, we can not say DRS on, off base on green background or grey I think.
Please take a look on your last screen DRS is grey, and DRS seems to be ON, or maybe we need next close up after this turn.

The lights are representative for all except that last screen. The green background signifies the DRS actuator being engaged. The actuator is not actually engaged in that last shot, but at that point Alonso had his DRS inverted problem.

[Kowalsky]

I think lights are representing only FIA request, and not what in fact was happening. We saw wing was open, but maybe it does not mean to FIA, DRS was ON? I do not have recording with me now, but as I remember on next shot clearly wing was open till first stop and maybe on onboards DRS background was still grey? Maybe stewards believe much more what they see on control panel (DRS off), than TV real footage (DRS on)?

[raymondu999]

I think lights are representing only FIA request, and not what in fact was happening.

The green DRS graphic is connected to the cars rather than the FiA - if the driver opens his DRS, it goes green.

We saw wing was open, but maybe it does not mean to FIA, DRS was ON? I do not have recording with me now, but as I remember on next shot clearly wing was open till first stop and maybe on onboards DRS background was still grey?

Because the wing was open by the damage - not open by the driver pressing a button.

[lebesset]

Massa's second tyre failure didn't look like it had anything to do with compound, it looked more like poor tyre construction. He didn't appear to be running the tyres particularly long, it just failed under load. Scary stuff. Still it's only a single corner of a single car so it could be some odd combination of a bad batch of tyres and Massa's particular driving style.

as is well known , in the event of any tyre failure the offending article is put in an evidence bag for later examination

heard no reports of what happened to hamilton's tyre [ tyre failure ? mechanical problem with the car ?] ...anyone got any information on this ?

but on massa's car
one tyre deflated due to a cut in the sidewall
the other was cut through the thread , and pieces of someone's carbon fibre bodywork were still in it

point is , no way pirelli can not tell the truth to the teams , consider the possible consequences ; you can bet the teams take a very close interest

[turbof1]

Massa's second tyre failure didn't look like it had anything to do with compound, it looked more like poor tyre construction. He didn't appear to be running the tyres particularly long, it just failed under load. Scary stuff. Still it's only a single corner of a single car so it could be some odd combination of a bad batch of tyres and Massa's particular driving style.

as is well known , in the event of any tyre failure the offending article is put in an evidence bag for later examination

heard no reports of what happened to hamilton's tyre [ tyre failure ? mechanical problem with the car ?] ...anyone got any information on this ?

but on massa's car
one tyre deflated due to a cut in the sidewall
the other was cut through the thread , and pieces of someone's carbon fibre bodywork were still in it

point is , no way pirelli can not tell the truth to the teams , consider the possible consequences ; you can bet the teams take a very close interest

Yeah pirelli stated that they are examining Hamilton's case. Looks like they are concerned about it; they now reject that it was a puncture by debris, finding no evidence for that. Further they are saying they might have to look at their tyres if the "initial findings" (though they stated in the same article that they rejected that...) are not confirmed.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/107024

Seems alot like Vettel's 2011 Abu Dhabi mystery tyre blow doesn't it?

[lebesset]

Massa's second tyre failure didn't look like it had anything to do with compound, it looked more like poor tyre construction. He didn't appear to be running the tyres particularly long, it just failed under load. Scary stuff. Still it's only a single corner of a single car so it could be some odd combination of a bad batch of tyres and Massa's particular driving style.

as is well known , in the event of any tyre failure the offending article is put in an evidence bag for later examination

heard no reports of what happened to hamilton's tyre [ tyre failure ? mechanical problem with the car ?] ...anyone got any information on this ?

but on massa's car
one tyre deflated due to a cut in the sidewall
the other was cut through the thread , and pieces of someone's carbon fibre bodywork were still in it

point is , no way pirelli can not tell the truth to the teams , consider the possible consequences ; you can bet the teams take a very close interest

Yeah pirelli stated that they are examining Hamilton's case. Looks like they are concerned about it; they now reject that it was a puncture by debris, finding no evidence for that. Further they are saying they might have to look at their tyres if the "initial findings" (though they stated in the same article that they rejected that...) are not confirmed.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/107024

Seems alot like Vettel's 2011 Abu Dhabi mystery tyre blow doesn't it?

wasn't the vettel incident during the period when red bull were operating outside the tyres designed camber parameters ? that can cause overheating in the tyres

but it is interesting to note that MGP had problems all weekend with overheating rear tyres even though the other teams were able to cope with the extreme temperatures
would perhaps explain why rosberg was able to have a super qually lap but fell away during the race ,but also why hamilton was slow at the beginning of the race , but was flying at the end of the race when the ambient dropped , even when running out of tyres

could be that the best is still to come from MGP when we come to the more moderate european temperatures


will be interesting to hear the result of pirelli's forensic exam of the hamilton tyre back at the ranch

[raymondu999]

The camber thing was spa 2011, not Abu Dhabi 2011.