2014 too slow? (or not, as the case may be)

[beelsebob]

You're making a rather large mistake with that statement. You are confusing skill with knowledge. It requires knowledge to change any setting with the power unit. The only skill involved, is the act of physically rotating a dial. There's not much else in the way of skill there Bob.

You can say the exact same thing about moving a lever in an H shaped slot, but it would be equally false. Both require you to time things exactly right, and to get exactly the right settings to make the car work in the optimal way.

You can "know" how to change a gear and turn a knob, but having the "skill" to do it spot on, on demand, when you consider it best, time after time, is a specific asset that can set drivers apart. Also, being able to accurately change a dial while under stress is a huge skill. Just ask any playstation hero to find the right button in the middle of a hectic scene - pros can effortlessly, beginners fail much more at the same task.

In your theory, astronaughts have no skill, they just push buttons.

I think you misunderstand me. You seem to be violently agreeing with me that the current drivers have to have an enormous amount of skill to be able to concentrate on changing hundreds of settings accurately at exactly the right times, while simultaneously driving around a circuit at hundreds of miles an hour.

[Cam]

I think you misunderstand me. You seem to be violently agreeing with me that the current drivers have to have an enormous amount of skill to be able to concentrate on changing hundreds of settings accurately at exactly the right times, while simultaneously driving around a circuit at hundreds of miles an hour.

I am agreeing with you. Did my words not reflect that?

[beelsebob]

I think you misunderstand me. You seem to be violently agreeing with me that the current drivers have to have an enormous amount of skill to be able to concentrate on changing hundreds of settings accurately at exactly the right times, while simultaneously driving around a circuit at hundreds of miles an hour.

I am agreeing with you. Did my words not reflect that?

Sorry, I must have missenterpretted you then, "In your theory, astronaughts have no skill, they just push buttons." confused me - my theory was that dealing with understanding hundreds of settings at multiple hundreds of miles an hour was indeed an admirable skill.

[Vettel Maggot]

Settle down Bobby, I agree with the cigarette guy, changing a manual gearbox is far more complex then rotating a dial. How many times do you have to shift a manual per lap as opposed to twisting a dial.

However, back in the day drivers had a radio button and a drinks button, the cars a bit more physical to drive and were slower through corners, but they had a manual box.

Now the drivers have to manage so much more in the cockpit, the harvesting of energy seems to have effected braking stability and they are constantly distracted by the radio chatter so I think in the end it levels out a bit. Modern day F1 drivers are closer to pilots now than just drivers, they drive and monitor instead of focusing almost 100% on the act of driving the car as in the past. It requires both skill and knowledge to put all of this together.

[beelsebob]

Settle down Bobby, I agree with the cigarette guy, changing a manual gearbox is far more complex then rotating a dial. How many times do you have to shift a manual per lap as opposed to twisting a dial.

Far fewer, and with far fewer options - that's the point.

However, back in the day drivers had a radio button and a drinks button, the cars a bit more physical to drive and were slower through corners, but they had a manual box.

Now the drivers have to manage so much more in the cockpit, the harvesting of energy seems to have effected braking stability and they are constantly distracted by the radio chatter so I think in the end it levels out a bit. Modern day F1 drivers are closer to pilots now than just drivers, they drive and monitor instead of focusing almost 100% on the act of driving the car as in the past. It requires both skill and knowledge to put all of this together.

Right, pretty much exactly what I was saying - modern drivers have different skills to 80s drivers. That does not in any way mean that driving a modern F1 car is not a huge test of skill.

[Giblet]

When seamless gearboxes first started showing up, I remember hearing they were good for 30 seconds per race of laptime.

If semi-auto gearboxes were never allowed I wonder what tricks and workarounds the teams would have done with the manual boxes to chase that 30 seconds of lost time.

[godlameroso]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wt83YtQ83xQ

Results speak for themselves, 4.5 seconds off the pace this year, F1 is too slow.

[beelsebob]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wt83YtQ83xQ

Results speak for themselves, 4.5 seconds off the pace this year, F1 is too slow.

The results actually say that over a race distance we're on average only about 1-1.5 seconds a lap slower, and given that the Mercs aren't pushing, that's actually likely only about 0.5 seconds a lap. Only in qualifying are we 4.5 seconds off the pace, and only at aero based circuits.

[Cam]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wt83YtQ83xQ

Results speak for themselves, 4.5 seconds off the pace this year, F1 is too slow.

The results actually say that over a race distance we're on average only about 1-1.5 seconds a lap slower, and given that the Mercs aren't pushing, that's actually likely only about 0.5 seconds a lap. Only in qualifying are we 4.5 seconds off the pace, and only at aero based circuits.

The same could be said for last year when Vettel was just cruising around at 85% every race. We can pull pull figures for this argument or that - ultimately, the cars are lapping slower than last year (at the moment). Yes, we all agree the engineers will find speed over the coming months/years, but that doesn't help F1 right now. It's not a good look.

Fastest Laps (Race)

---------------2013 --------------2014
Aus ----------1:29.274 ----------1:32.478
Mal ----------1:39.199 ----------1:43.066
Bah ----------1:36.961 ----------1:37.020
Chi ----------1:36.808 ----------1:40.402
Spa ----------1:26.217 ----------1:28.918
Mon ---------1:16.577 ----------TBA

[Juzh]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wt83YtQ83xQ

Results speak for themselves, 4.5 seconds off the pace this year, F1 is too slow.

The results actually say that over a race distance we're on average only about 1-1.5 seconds a lap slower, and given that the Mercs aren't pushing, that's actually likely only about 0.5 seconds a lap. Only in qualifying are we 4.5 seconds off the pace, and only at aero based circuits.

Now why would you say mercs weren't pushing?

[Pingguest]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wt83YtQ83xQ

Results speak for themselves, 4.5 seconds off the pace this year, F1 is too slow.

According to what objective standards is Formula One too slow in 2014?

[Cam]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wt83YtQ83xQ

Results speak for themselves, 4.5 seconds off the pace this year, F1 is too slow.

According to what objective standards is Formula One too slow in 2014?

time = distance/speed ?

[turbof1]

How did the weather conditions apply? Temperature plays a huge role in Catalunya.

[Pingguest]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wt83YtQ83xQ

Results speak for themselves, 4.5 seconds off the pace this year, F1 is too slow.

According to what objective standards is Formula One too slow in 2014?

time = distance/speed ?

The theorem that Formula One is too slow in 2014, is not factual but normative. To what objective standards can the normative question being answered?

[johnsonwax]

Or put another way, why must F1 be incrementally faster every year, without exception? It sounds as though the race is irrelevant because most laps are below their top pace, that we should just wrap up after Q3 and call it a day. In Q3 we have our fastest pace, we have a head-to-head competition, why bother with all the slow stuff on Sunday?

Or is the point of racing and F1 the combination of factors of pace, passing, pit strategy, tire and fuel management, and all that?