bluechris wrote: ↑02 Sep 2024, 13:10
bananapeel23 wrote: ↑02 Sep 2024, 13:07
It's very close, and I'd argue its about a 50/40/10 split between people who consider Leclerc/Max/Russell to be the best in quali.
How on earth Russell is compared with Max & Leclerc in quali?
Generally because he's beating Hamilton and Hamilton has the most pole positions ever in F1 history, as well as his reputation for absolutely crushing his teammates in Williams. Personally I think it's very difficult to judge Russell. He could be on par with Max/Leclerc or he could be a bit worse, it's very difficult to tell with how much Hamilton has been struggling with this regulation set and how terrible his cars and teammates were in Williams.
Personally I'd put Russell behind Max and Leclerc; probably on par with, or slightly faster than Norris and Sainz. I do belive some people really consider Russell to be the best in quali, however. 50/40/10 might be generous, and it might be closer to 53/42/5 or something, but those people do exist and Russell really does have quite an amazing qualifying record, albeit one that deserves an asterisk.
If you don't agree with the Russell comparison. That really only leaves Leclerc and Verstappen as the people you could reasonably argue are the best qualifiers. Does that make Leclerc as the consensus fastest qualifier that unreasonable?
avantman wrote: ↑02 Sep 2024, 12:54
this all is very interesting but simply completely wrong, because of the fact we know for certain red bull did their absolute best to sign Norris from 2025 onwards. There is nobody in their mind in F1 paddock who would put Sainz above Norris today on quali or race pace. Except maybe few diehard Ferrari fans who consider Charles an absolute God.
Leclerc is an absolute monster in quali. If he isn't the best outright, he's narrowly 2nd best at worst. That isn't even up for discussion. The man is rapid and Sainz is close. Sainz doesn't quite have the "it" factor that Leclerc does with the disgusting second Q3 runs Leclerc can manage sometimes, but he is seriously fast and people underestimate just how good his quali is.
Remember that Sainz beat Verstappen in the 2015 quali head-to-head and beat Norris in quali in 2019 and was very even with him in 2020. Obviously 2015 Verstappen and 2019/2020 Norris are not 2024 Verstappen and Norris, but Sainz has been consistently good in quali his whole career. Is he as good as Norris or Verstappen? Absolutely not. Is he as good in qualifying as Norris. I'd argue they would be incredibly close, easily the closest on the grid in the same car, like +-0.05 or so in average quali gap across a season.
Quali tier list:
Best of the Best: Leclerc >= Verstappen
Amazing: Russell > Norris >= Sainz
Great: Hamilton > Piastri
Good: Alonso, Hülkenberg, Albon