Kimi Raikkonen has won a thrilling race that was full of action from start to finish. The Finn marks his first win since his return to Formula One and in the end fended off a charging Alonso who finishes second. Sebastian Vettel finished third after having started from 24th position.
beelsebob wrote:So... Horner has now decided that Vettel will start from the pit lane, as they need to change the fuel tank and break park ferme... This now leaves me wondering what illegal fuel tank design has the FIA found on the red bull?
Nothing: it was completely the decision from Red Bull to do so. When you have malfunctioning fuel systems, and you are starting last anyway, that is a very sensible decision, which brings me to my next point:
I think we have alot of "conspiracy-theory people" around here: it really is too far fetched to think that Red Bull tried to lie its way out of it; the statement of the FIA makes that much more clear: it was force majeure (no, beelsebob: force majeure does not include underfueling as that is within the control of the team!), so something really was going wrong in the car.
what is abnormal about Vettel qualifying on sat was when his right rear hit the sidewall and the impact should be enough to cause some damage to a "normal" f1 car. I am not sure if the fuel issue has got something to do with it.
mzivtins wrote:Conspiracy people? No surely not, how the hell does a team not know what fuel is in the car... Mclaren came under fire with this, it is pure stupidity... They dont understand why it happened, but it did... i believe what the FIA have ruled... there was not enough fuel in the car and NO mechanical issue that caused it.
If you want proof, just look at the same the with mclaren, both teams conducted themselves VERY differently. And depending on who you are as a person will determine if you trust either one after stunts like this.
Red Bull... are very sneaky.
Well, there was enough fuel, but not in fuel collector where samples are taken from. Don't get me wrong either though: it was very stupid of Red Bull, very very stupid. But it was accepted by the FIA that there was a problem with the car, outside the control of the team, that justified to pull over. However, you can't bring in force majeure for the fuel sample itself. Either you have it, or you don't and you get DSQ, whatever the reason is.
Last edited by turbof1 on 04 Nov 2012, 12:06, edited 1 time in total.
piast9 wrote:Do these cars have fuel level sensor in the fuel cell? I doubt it taking into account the complicated shape of the cell itself. If not then the fuel level is calculated basing on the knowledge of how much fuel was at the beginning and how much was used.
Simple failure of putting right amount of fuel at the beginning would cause that the engine guys would see that the fuel pump wasn't working properly because pressure dropped when the computer said that there was still some fuel in the tank. Of course then it would be discovered that it wasn't pump malfunction but the lack of fuel.
Such series of events occurred yesterday. It doesn't necessarily mean that RB cheated. Additionally it caused that Vettel will start at the back so we will see some overtaking on quite dull track and it levelled the championship battle which will also add to the excitement. So everyone happy with the exception of Vettel.
They also have the suspension loads which will show the weight of the fuel, plus there will be a level sensor in the collector tank. These cars have hundreds of sensors, can't see them missing out the fuel system.
beelsebob wrote:So... Horner has now decided that Vettel will start from the pit lane, as they need to change the fuel tank and break park ferme... This now leaves me wondering what illegal fuel tank design has the FIA found on the red bull?
Nothing: it was completely the decision from Red Bull to do so. When you have malfunctioning fuel systems, and you are starting last anyway, that is a very sensible decision, which brings me to my next point:
I think we have alot of "conspiracy-theory people" around here: it really is too far fetched to think that Red Bull tried to lie its way out of it; the statement of the FIA makes that much more clear: it was force majeure (no, beelsebob: force majeure does not include underfueling as that is within the control of the team!), so something really was going wrong in the car.
Well, the basis for this was a combination of factors:
1) Yesterday, when the penalty was announced, the BBC comentators were saying "we're not sure if it's back of the grid, or start from the pit lane, there are noises that the FIA have found an irregularity in the fuel tank"
2) The norm for the FIA when they find a car to be illegal (at least when it's not Sauber) is to say "look, just keep it quiet, and change it".
So I guess Vettel cant fit the 9th engine without getting a penalty the next race.
28.4 a) Each driver may use no more than eight engines during a Championship season. Should a driver use more than eight engines he will drop ten places on the starting grid at the first Event during which each additional engine is used. If two such additional engines are used during a single Event the driver concerned will drop ten places on the starting grid at that Event and at the following Event
FakeAlonso wrote:So I guess Vettel cant fit the 9th engine without getting a penalty the next race.
28.4 a) Each driver may use no more than eight engines during a Championship season. Should a driver use more than eight engines he will drop ten places on the starting grid at the first Event during which each additional engine is used. If two such additional engines are used during a single Event the driver concerned will drop ten places on the starting grid at that Event and at the following Event
My guess is that the "force majeure" was in fact "renault told us to turn the engine off, we had no choice", and that it was then discovered that renault told them to turn it off because there was no fuel.
from what I read, there was not enough fuel in the fuel collector tank, it was not supplied with fuel, the fuel pump was about to pump air instead of fuel, to prevent damage to the engine Renault gave the order to shut down the engine/car.
The reason for having the fuel collector tank getting no fuel can be a lot. No fuel left in the fuel tank is one of them.
I really think they had enogh fuel onboard but sh*t happened inside the fuel tank. http://scarbsf1.com/blog1/2012/06/01/an ... el-system/ (if it wasn't posted before)
Finishing races is important, but racing is more important.
I think RBR will change to the 9th engine, take a new gearbox, and perhaps make tweaks to a race pace biased setup.
Rewatching the 3 races Abu Dhabi has held so far, I tried to look for certain patterns to see what RBR might gamble on.
If the race is a 1-stopper, RBR is pretty much f*cked either way as they'll need to work their way up the old fashioned way, and probably need to pray that their double DRS, in addition to the longer first DRS zone, are sufficient.
If the race is a 2-stopper, however, things could get interesting. Rewatching 2010, I think RBR could try to replicate Webber's Suzuka strategy and stop on L1 and L28(race midpoint) for new primes. If the RBR race pace is good (it's generally been at least equal-best, if not outright best, in the last 4 races) then it could see some serious points come their way. If a short early-race safety car comes out, things could get REALLY juicy for Vettel (juicy considering his P24 start).
Or they could try to go long on the first option stint and make the race a 1-stopper then, banking on Abu Dhabi's difficult overtaking scene to hold on to track position.
know some will suggest starting on primes instead but IMO it's not wise. Starting on the primes guarantees you end-of-race pace, sacrificing track position. With a slow car on the straights and a difficult overtaking circuit, this is not a very wise thing to do. It's wiser to take the earlier gain for track position and then try holding on to it.
With Vettel starting from the pits, does anyone know when the light will pop green? Is it as the guys leave T1, or leave T3?
beelsebob wrote:So... Horner has now decided that Vettel will start from the pit lane, as they need to change the fuel tank and break park ferme... This now leaves me wondering what illegal fuel tank design has the FIA found on the red bull?
Nothing: it was completely the decision from Red Bull to do so. When you have malfunctioning fuel systems, and you are starting last anyway, that is a very sensible decision, which brings me to my next point:
I think we have alot of "conspiracy-theory people" around here: it really is too far fetched to think that Red Bull tried to lie its way out of it; the statement of the FIA makes that much more clear: it was force majeure (no, beelsebob: force majeure does not include underfueling as that is within the control of the team!), so something really was going wrong in the car.
its pretty obvious bulls were trying to cheat , even if they had to stop car due to some technical issue does not imply that it should not pass mandatory fuel check unless they intended to do so and somehow it backfired on them. they have refueled it for so many qualifying to know wht is ideal fuel load for qualifying. they were acting smart to make vettel qualify a bit higher. probability has done them this time.
Found this on Tumblr and thought I share it with you gentlemen before the race.
Do any of you think the brothers Mayhem and Chaos will wreak havoc in tonight's race?
If someone said to me that you can have three wishes, my first would have been to get into racing, my second to be in Formula 1, my third to drive for Ferrari.
raymondu999 wrote:
With Vettel starting from the pits, does anyone know when the light will pop green? Is it as the guys leave T1, or leave T3?
I believe it is usually after pit exit. But I think it will probably be after everyone has passed turn 3. I have a feeling it is going to be tough for vettel to get even close to the HRTs within 2 laps.
