2013 Bahrain GP - Sakhir

[simieski]

You two are missing the point - the FiA system was broken since Melbourne. They lost the ability to restrict the DRS with that. The drivers could have activated DRS all through the lap in these first four races. Hence the FiA reverting to an older spec from Barcelona onwards.

This isn't how I understood the problem the FIA is having with the system. I was under the impression that once enabled they could not shut DRS off, i.e in safety car or wet weather, along with lights relating to flags not appearing on the steering wheel. The arming and activation in the DRS zone has been working as intended as far as I was aware, I find it very hard to believe that they have had the ability to use it whenever they press the button irrespective of position on the lap.

[lebesset]

The camber thing was spa 2011, not Abu Dhabi 2011.

spa maybe where it came to light , but I thought RBR were doing this at more than one race

[turbof1]

The camber thing was spa 2011, not Abu Dhabi 2011.

spa maybe where it came to light , but I thought RBR were doing this at more than one race

If it was too much camber you can bet on it Pirelli would have put the blame on it. I think it is more about a tyre that simply had a bad construction, but a tyre company is never going to admit that. Might be the exact same case now.

We had abnormally alot of tyre failures during the Bahrain race. Pirelli claims in most cases debris, but there were never big chunks of debris to be noticed. Is it possible that the hot temperatures combined with certain characteristics of the track that makes the tyre more fragile?

[SiLo]

The tyre failures were most definitely dubious in all cases, Massa couldn't really have run into the same piece of debris twice could he? I mean, they all generally drive the same lines for the most part, so surely someone else would have run into it as well?

[i70q7m7ghw]

You two are missing the point - the FiA system was broken since Melbourne. They lost the ability to restrict the DRS with that. The drivers could have activated DRS all through the lap in these first four races. Hence the FiA reverting to an older spec from Barcelona onwards.

This isn't how I understood the problem the FIA is having with the system. I was under the impression that once enabled they could not shut DRS off, i.e in safety car or wet weather, along with lights relating to flags not appearing on the steering wheel. The arming and activation in the DRS zone has been working as intended as far as I was aware, I find it very hard to believe that they have had the ability to use it whenever they press the button irrespective of position on the lap.

My understanding was that all FIA to CAR control has been lost. The drivers still recieve a "BEEP" when they are allowed to use DRS, so they know full well when they can activate DRS. Some teams also configure a BEEP for gear changes as well

[simieski]

The tyre failures were most definitely dubious in all cases, Massa couldn't really have run into the same piece of debris twice could he? I mean, they all generally drive the same lines for the most part, so surely someone else would have run into it as well?

It's possible he was on a different line, wouldn't be the first time anyway. I think in India 2011 he had a front suspension failure from taking more of the kerb than others in both qualy and the race.

[turbof1]

The tyre failures were most definitely dubious in all cases, Massa couldn't really have run into the same piece of debris twice could he? I mean, they all generally drive the same lines for the most part, so surely someone else would have run into it as well?

It's possible he was on a different line, wouldn't be the first time anyway. I think in India 2011 he had a front suspension failure from taking more of the kerb than others in both qualy and the race.

Yes, but that was because right next to the kerb was a very nasty pit. It broke his suspension twice that weekend.

No such thing at Bahrain. Flat circuit, flat kerbs, flat run offs.

[raymondu999]

Yes, but that was because right next to the kerb was a very nasty pit. It broke his suspension twice that weekend.

No such thing at Bahrain. Flat circuit, flat kerbs, flat run offs.

Not a pit, but he was mounting those orange sausage kerbs (aka negative vallelungas) which proved too hard on his suspension.

[GrizzleBoy]

I recorded 11 minutes of onboard From Alonso's car that begins at the start of the race and ends when he pits.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1JEQDZ5IyA[/youtube]

You can clearly see when the DRS gets stuck via Alonsos input and the general poor handling of the car, as well as the early opening where he has massive acceleration out of the last corner when first overtaking Rosberg.

Towards the end of the video the camera also switches to a rear view to show what the wing is doing.

[lebesset]

The tyre failures were most definitely dubious in all cases, Massa couldn't really have run into the same piece of debris twice could he? I mean, they all generally drive the same lines for the most part, so surely someone else would have run into it as well?

most definitely dubious ? where is your evidence for that ?

[SiLo]

The tyre failures were most definitely dubious in all cases, Massa couldn't really have run into the same piece of debris twice could he? I mean, they all generally drive the same lines for the most part, so surely someone else would have run into it as well?

most definitely dubious ? where is your evidence for that ?

The fact there was no evidence for Hamilton's failure, and Massa had the same failure twice yet nobody else driving near him did? It's judgement based on common sense, it's not fact.

[beelsebob]

The tyre failures were most definitely dubious in all cases, Massa couldn't really have run into the same piece of debris twice could he? I mean, they all generally drive the same lines for the most part, so surely someone else would have run into it as well?

most definitely dubious ? where is your evidence for that ?

The fact there was no evidence for Hamilton's failure, and Massa had the same failure twice yet nobody else driving near him did? It's judgement based on common sense, it's not fact.

Also, the fact that Pirelli have announced that they now think no debris was involved in Hamilton's incident, and that they've changed the construction due to it.

[SiLo]

Missed that, thanks Beelsebob.

[lebesset]

only announcement I have seen from pirelli says that they have changed the hard compound for europe

where is there an announcement that they have changed the construction ?

[Goran2812]

Blatant disregard? The DRS is supposedly controlled by FIA software to not be allowed to open up outside a DRS zone. You can't blame a software glitch on Ferrari.

That's like saying "cheating is supposedly controlled by the invigorating to not be done during tests. You can't blame that on the student."

Sure the FiA system was broken. But the facts are that Fernando pushed the button where he shouldn't have. To me that leaves one of two possible explanations:
- he (genuinely) didn't remember that the activation was some way down, and just remembered to use DRS "on the pit straight" - in which case you have to wonder if their qualifying lap was then legal.
- he knew he had an excuse to plead memory shortage against the FiA, and knew that he had a get out of jail free card by saying, "how was I supposed to remember?"

If it was on purpose, I believe we can call it, as Cam says, "blatant disregard." If it was a genuine error - then less of the blame (in a moral/ethical sense) on Fernando. But I'm quite sure Vettel in Abu Dhabi 2012 qualifying and Hamilton in Spain 2012 qualifying were genuine underfueling mistakes too.

with all due respect ray, some things you wrote/ "accused" Alonso/Ferrari here are wrong and hold no ground...
Alonso activating his DRS before the black marker is pure reflex. He knows the start finish line is the DRS zone and only does what he has to - prepares the system for use. Ferrari drivers don't activate their DRS using a switch on the wheel, the drivers move their left leg even more to the left of the brake pedal and as long as the foot is on the pedal the flap is engaged (taking into account that the car is in a DRS zone, and was within 1 sec behind the car). It's then on the system to allow the DRS flap to open when the car passes the marker. Blaming Alonso for a faulty FIA system is wrong... If he lifts his foot even for a second from that switch the drs shut's down...