2014 Testing - Bahrain 19-22 Feb

[Per]

Have you guys seen the Caterham telemetry data they have in their (really good) site?

Here's the one for Bahrain http://caterhamf1.com/previews/2013/04- ... H-Full.png

Yes, it's the Caterham, not a top car, and we don't know the conditions of the car when the data was acquired, but the telemetry they provide can provide a nice reference.
We can see that turn 2 is a very strong corner g-wise as Blanchimont said, the telemetry car did turn 6 at 167km/h and 7 at 192 km/h. Turn 9 has very high lateral g as well before the car brakes. Turn 12 is the one with the most lateral g, taken at around 250km/h flat out.

Great info, thanks for posting.

High g alone is not enough to determine if the laptimes on this track indicate something about downforce levels on the different cars. Yes turn 12 has the highest g but as you said it is 'simply' a flat out corner and less than 3g lateral is probably not the limit at 250 km/h. Downforce makes you quicker mainly in those parts where you are going at high speed, but can't go flat out. As you can see on the throttle position curve, the throttle is always at 0 or 100% except for two corners: at turn 2 and turn 6/7.

So that's not a lot. OK, you can try looking at acceleration up to 150-200 km/h but I find it hard to compare. Saying "the Merc has more downforce than the Mac because they went faster in Bahrain" is not a very strong argument, I have to agree with Artur Craft.

On another note: Caterham is apparently only using 6 gears on this track. The slowest corner is about 60-65 km/h so I can imagine they want a lower 1st gear for some tracks or for starts. But I wonder why they don't shift to 8th gear? They are in the limiter for quite a while on the main straight. Can anyone make sense of that?

Also, does anyone have a link to telemetry from 2013 (or earlier) on a track with similar downforce level? I'd love to overlay the speed curves to compare straight line acceleration.

[Artur Craft]

On that video he hits turn 7 apex at 215kph. Turn 7 being the left hander in the 5,6,7 combo. Flick left, then right then left. Leading to 8 the final right hander before the back straight that runs parallel with the start/finish straight.

Don't underestimate the corner 2 at 160km/h from the Rosberg video, i think it is very close to the lateral limit of the car.
Then 6 at 185km/h and 7 at 215km/h, braking for corner 10 through 9 from 250km/h. Corner 12 with a speed of 250 seems also close the lateral limit to me.

That's why I said only considered real corners(those based on what I've seen in many onboards throughout the years over this track) in my post.

At least on new tyres and on low fuel, T7 and T12 are easily flat out bends for every car. T2 is a bit more edgy but still is flat out in any decent car, ie, any car that is not Marussia or Caterham.

I will reconsider my comment over T6, as 180kmh is enough for downforce being a very relevant factor.

So basically and cornering-wise, df will only be decisive in one corner at Bahrain. In a couple others it has some importance(as on the 140kmh range) but mechanical grip is still quite significant.

Imho, we'll only be able to really see how they rank, donwforce-wise, in Melbourne's S3 as there are 3 corners there that are taken at around 220kmh for the first two and to 190kmh to the third.

The thing I didn't consider in this discussion, so far, is that due to slower tyres, 50kg more weight and 15% less downforce, the cornering speeds will decrease by quite some margin. So the corner that was previously taken at 180kmh, is now at 160kmh or less(a rough guess), Because of lower cornering speeds, downforce becomes even less important in a track like Bahrain

[Diff-user]

Have you guys seen the Caterham telemetry data they have in their (really good) site?

Here's the one for Bahrain http://caterhamf1.com/previews/2013/04- ... H-Full.png

Yes, it's the Caterham, not a top car, and we don't know the conditions of the car when the data was acquired, but the telemetry they provide can provide a nice reference.
We can see that turn 2 is a very strong corner g-wise as Blanchimont said, the telemetry car did turn 6 at 167km/h and 7 at 192 km/h. Turn 9 has very high lateral g as well before the car brakes. Turn 12 is the one with the most lateral g, taken at around 250km/h flat out.

Great info, thanks for posting.

High g alone is not enough to determine if the laptimes on this track indicate something about downforce levels on the different cars. Yes turn 12 has the highest g but as you said it is 'simply' a flat out corner and less than 3g lateral is probably not the limit at 250 km/h. Downforce makes you quicker mainly in those parts where you are going at high speed, but can't go flat out. As you can see on the throttle position curve, the throttle is always at 0 or 100% except for two corners: at turn 2 and turn 6/7.

So that's not a lot. OK, you can try looking at acceleration up to 150-200 km/h but I find it hard to compare. Saying "the Merc has more downforce than the Mac because they went faster in Bahrain" is not a very strong argument, I have to agree with Artur Craft.

On another note: Caterham is apparently only using 6 gears on this track. The slowest corner is about 60-65 km/h so I can imagine they want a lower 1st gear for some tracks or for starts. But I wonder why they don't shift to 8th gear? They are in the limiter for quite a while on the main straight. Can anyone make sense of that?

Also, does anyone have a link to telemetry from 2013 (or earlier) on a track with similar downforce level? I'd love to overlay the speed curves to compare straight line acceleration.

The Telemetry IS from 2013 (or older). Because the revs are hitting 18000.

[Per]

OK now I feel quite stupid. Thanks for pointing it out.

[dren]

http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2014/02/q ... n-f1-test/

“Clearly we do not know what fuel levels were being used by all the teams, but Mercedes must be very happy with this test. Rosberg’s graph shows the clear pace of Mercedes over both the short and longer runs, with their tyre degradation being good, especially on the penultimate run.

Similarly McLaren and Ferrari have clearly done a good job with their new cars, but appear to have a bit to do to catch Merc’s general pace.

[tim|away]

Has anyone noticed that Raikkonen's car wasn't safe after his off? Even when the ferrari mechanics showed up to recover the car, the ES wasn't "neutralised" and they were handling it carefully with rubber gloves. I wonder what sort of implications this has for incidents during the race which might cause safety car periods as a result of cars not neutralising their ES.

Look at around 4:50.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... mizs#t=290[/youtube]

[basti313]

Has anyone noticed that Raikkonen's car wasn't safe after his off? Even when the ferrari mechanics showed up to recover the car, the ES wasn't "neutralised" and they were handling it carefully with rubber gloves. I wonder what sort of implications this has for incidents during the race which might cause safety car periods as a result of cars not neutralising their ES.

Maybe they just do not want to blow their batteries in these test events. If they crash the car during a race they have nothing to loose and can risk the fast decharging...or they are just forced to do it by the regs.

[stefan_]

[beelsebob]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bhap3DfCEAA0gDX.jpg:large

Daft continental number systems, I read this initially as "what... they did a lot more than 2 and a third laps, and only 12 km".

[dren]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bhap3DfCEAA0gDX.jpg:large

Daft continental number systems, I read this initially as "what... they did a lot more than 2 and a third laps, and only 12 km".

I think they were refering to the Renault powered cars.

[beelsebob]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bhap3DfCEAA0gDX.jpg:large

Daft continental number systems, I read this initially as "what... they did a lot more than 2 and a third laps, and only 12 km".

I think they were refering to the Renault powered cars.

[Alexgtt]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bhap3DfCEAA0gDX.jpg:large

Daft continental number systems, I read this initially as "what... they did a lot more than 2 and a third laps, and only 12 km".

I think they were refering to the Renault powered cars.

Ooohhh, below the belt that one!

Where is the new thread for 2nd Bahrain test?

[aleks_ader]

Ooohhh, below the belt that one!

Where is the new thread for 2nd Bahrain test?

Rename this one...

[beelsebob]

Daft continental number systems, I read this initially as "what... they did a lot more than 2 and a third laps, and only 12 km".

I think they were refering to the Renault powered cars.

Ooohhh, below the belt that one!

Where is the new thread for 2nd Bahrain test?

Here http://www.f1technical.net/forum/viewto ... =1&t=17765

Could probably do with the mods swapping the pinning.

[Chuckjr]

Making judgments about downforce based purely on appearances is a bad idea at the best of times.

...how about the levels of rake Mercedes can run? That's one of the best indicators of how a car is performing aerodynamically, and the W05 is running with almost as much rake as the 2013 Red Bull.

Wait. You just did what you emphatically said not to do.

The whole Merc having more rake myth was punted in these forums days ago by guys who have proven to be quite smart with aero issues in these forums.

Based on the innovative force Macca has shown to be over the decades - those outlandish wishbones for example...they also invented the coanda exhaust lest we forget, and what Allison has stated about what's to come for Ferrari...both of these teams will have more to offer, and simply are not playing the "I can be faster than you" game at this point. As Allison said, they have a program and it has had nothing to do with pushing the car to its limits at this point.

Hopefully the real pecking order will begin to surface as teams are forced to drop their pants as Oz and the inevitable approaches. Bring it. =D>