Scuderia Ferrari SF70H

[Vanja #66]

Not saying they don't know about it. I'm saying it is definitely intentional and that I don't believe it is simple upright/hub twist. Maybe it has something to do with energy recovery system (someone noticed Haas has this same feature)...

[aral]

There is a specific thread for discussion of suspension, aero and tyres. This movement of the hubs is relative to suspension and is not unique in any way to the SF70H. Please post your comments on the appropriate thread rather than the Ferrari car thread.
Thanks.

[ME4ME]

There is a specific thread for discussion of suspension, aero and tyres. This movement of the hubs is relative to suspension and is not unique in any way to the SF70H. Please post your comments on the appropriate thread rather than the Ferrari car thread.
Thanks.

The extend of motion and possible intentional nature of the design can make it unique to the SF70H. You cannot discard that at this stage. It's related to the car. What specific topic do you have in mind that suits this discussion better?

Which all due respect, this nitpicking from moderators, although with good intentions, is much more annoying than any disorder induced through open discussions.

[Mark4211]

Annotated wheel adjustments: Onboard lap, Kimi Raikkonen - Testing 2017
https://vimeo.com/208139283

[PhillipM]

The extend of motion and possible intentional nature of the design can make it unique to the SF70H. You cannot discard that at this stage. It's related to the car. What specific topic do you have in mind that suits this discussion better?

Which all due respect, this nitpicking from moderators, although with good intentions, is much more annoying than any disorder induced through open discussions.

This. Sorry aral, but in what universe is something that is a part of the SF70H's technical suspension design not suitable for discussion in the SF70H's technical thread?

Are we going to move all the engine posts into the engine thread, all the suspension into that thread, aero development into the 2017 aero regs thread and just delete the individual car threads altogether as there's no point in having them?

[turbof1]

So guys,

This is quite the grey area. Yes, the suspension is a hardware part of the car. So in that regard it does not contravene the rules of a car topic.

On the other hand we have a pinned 2017 suspension topic: viewtopic.php?f=12&t=25822. The topic was created in anticipation of suspension design crowding out other discussion points.

I propose the following: debates about the suspension of the car will be left alone. However if the discussion seems to be dominating for lets say one or a few pages, the posts will be moved at the discretion of the moderator. The posts will not be removed unless you are for instance only talking about a competitor's suspension without dialling it back the car in the topic's name.

Finally, given we actually have to deal now with such grey areas, instead of the topic being filled with livery talk, does make me happy as it means topic quality has seriously improved. I'm more than willing to take this bump in the road.

[DiogoBrand]

That is not a small amount of twist and it would mess with suspension points on upright as well and they don't seem to move. This is not my area at all, but I'm not sure you would want to allow such big deformations to occur 10-15 times per lap.

Well, if I know something from my little civil engineering experience, is that you can make something handle way bigger forces if you let it flex instead of preventing any movement. So maybe their suspension will be more reliable if they let it twist than if they try to fix it in place. What's left to find out is if there's any benefit from this twist or if it's just an unintended consequence.

[Vanja #66]

Well, if I know something from my little civil engineering experience, is that you can make something handle way bigger forces if you let it flex instead of preventing any movement.

Absolutely. However, with suspension design you mustn't allow any deformation. Chapman once said: "Any suspension can be made to work as long as you don’t let it!" What he meant is that you can't allow compliance to rear its ugly head... If it does, you can kiss goodbye any chance of proper suspension set-up.

This is why I don't see how it can be because of upright movement. I'm 99% sure that it's the same with hubs. Like I said, reaction of brake ducts (and whatever they are attached to that moves in this manner as well) seems a bit delayed to me, so my money is on it having something to do with energy recovery system. I don't know how that works, but would love to find out.

[PlatinumZealot]

After watching the video again, yeah, the top wishbone does not dip when the brake duct dips. Might be a sound assumption that the wheel hub does not rotate that much either so that means the brake down is flexing independently.

[PhillipM]

Chapman once said: "Any suspension can be made to work as long as you don’t let it!" What he meant is that you can't allow compliance to rear its ugly head... If it does, you can kiss goodbye any chance of proper suspension set-up.

That's not what he meant at all, far from it, what he meant was it didn't matter how poor the suspension geometery was if you didn't let it move because your spring were so insanely stiff to control the aero loads.
In fact the wheel hub rotating/compliance would be the opposite of what he meant - he would let it flex if it didn't matter because that's lighter...

[mattia.bobbo]

Can it be that the brake duct is sensible to acceleration and it moves consequently? Like an old balance with 2 arms the brake duct seem oscillating.. The brake duct have a certain amount of play and when the car is accelerating the brake duct is up, when the car is braking it tilts down.. Or am I completely wrong?

[Manfer]

I believe it is the air pressure at speed pushing the duct inlet back. The same phenomenon is observed on the Hass and to a smaller effect on the red bull.

[godlameroso]

I believe it is the air pressure at speed pushing the duct inlet back. The same phenomenon is observed on the Hass and to a smaller effect on the red bull.

The Haas has very similar brake ducts to the Ferrari, minus the slats on the ducts to prevent things from flying in there.

[Vanja #66]

That's not what he meant at all, far from it, what he meant was it didn't matter how poor the suspension geometery was if you didn't let it move because your spring were so insanely stiff to control the aero loads.
In fact the wheel hub rotating/compliance would be the opposite of what he meant - he would let it flex if it didn't matter because that's lighter...

That's not my interpretation of his quote, that's what people from automotive industry and motorsport who have been around for 20+ years say it means. Don't underestimate Chapman, he was a lot more than a designer wanting only to make things as light as possible. But let's finish with this OT here...

[Thunder]

No JB Discussion in here. We all know how that will end. This goes for General Safety Discussions of the 2017 Regulations and the infamous Halo too. Just a brief reminder.