2021 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, Sep 10 - 12

[Unf]

He had an opponent in 2017 and 2018, Vettel in the Ferrari. I just think Hamilton has never feared (I am not native english, not sure about a better word) Vettel the way he does Verstappen.

Vettel's performance never was even close to Verstappen's. Even on 2018... where Vettel did such a lot mistakes.
So I would not consider 2018 Vettel as a real opponent to Lewis.

[Gillian]

He had an opponent in 2017 and 2018, Vettel in the Ferrari. I just think Hamilton has never feared (I am not native english, not sure about a better word) Vettel the way he does Verstappen.

Vettel's performance never was even close to Verstappen's. Even on 2018... where Vettel did such a lot mistakes.
So I would not consider 2018 Vettel as a real opponent to Lewis.

I agree with you on Vettel's performance overall but please look back to the first half of 2018. Vettel did not make a lot of mistakes and if the second half would have been as good as the first, it would have been really close.

Anyway it's getting offtopic and I will drop it.

[search]

What do you think about strategy?

McL today won the sprint at the start with the Soft. That was massive. But I think they need to cover Ferrari with Medium.
If I would be Merc I would start on Soft. Furthermore I guess Toto will have a word with Zak, they were allowed to play today, tomorrow is money down.

So the big question is if Max will start on Medium or Soft.

based on the list of tiresets still available, I guess Mercedes plans to run Softs at some point at least. Verstappen probably not



(list still tbc by Pirelli, so there may be minor mistakes, but should be more or less accurate)

[TimW]

What do you think about strategy?

McL today won the sprint at the start with the Soft. That was massive. But I think they need to cover Ferrari with Medium.
If I would be Merc I would start on Soft. Furthermore I guess Toto will have a word with Zak, they were allowed to play today, tomorrow is money down.

So the big question is if Max will start on Medium or Soft.

The delta between tires seems very very small, so I'd expect medium-hard for most.

[JordanMugen]

Great job by Bottas, Ricciardo, Verstappen and Norris.

I think he is making more mistakes this year because of Verstappen having a competitive car and he still has the desire to win more.

Hamilton made lots of mistakes in 2010 to 2012 too IIRC. It seems pretty standard for Hamilton to be honest. Obviously, Hamilton hasn't needed to push as much when the Mercedes has been dominant.

[JordanMugen]

Mercedes & RB will be competitive everywhere. Sochi should be a Mercedes advantage easily, atleast on par with Monza. Anyways I could be wrong - But I would bet on Monza & Sochi as Mercedes' 2 best races in H2 !

The reason Merc has a pace advantage over Red Bull is due to the kerb riding here. Merc is the class of the field in that department and Red Bull's front end is sprung too stiff which it needs for it's aero map. Sochi isn't about riding kerbs except 16&17

Where'd you get that? I believe it's actually the other way around, at least it was in previous races (i wasn't checking that hard recently). Mercedes had almost zero roll whereas red bull has quite a lot, and this was partly attributed to aid them on traction.
I mean, yes, mercedes is faster on kerbs, I just dont think it's because they're more softly sprung.

Yes I disagree too. Mercedes is usually stiffer because a low rake car needs to be stiffer to maintain the correct attitude.

Conversely, the high rake cars are all setup with a soft rear spring to shed drag on the straights and pop up for the corners (conveniently lowering the front wing into better ground effect!).

All the F1 cars are surprisingly softly sprung compared to say F2 though. It was the F2 cars that were constantly lifting the inside wheel at say Monaco. The F1 suspensions are very sophisticated indeed!

[codetower]

What do you think about strategy?

McL today won the sprint at the start with the Soft. That was massive. But I think they need to cover Ferrari with Medium.
If I would be Merc I would start on Soft. Furthermore I guess Toto will have a word with Zak, they were allowed to play today, tomorrow is money down.

So the big question is if Max will start on Medium or Soft.

based on the list of tiresets still available, I guess Mercedes plans to run Softs at some point at least. Verstappen probably not

https://i.imgur.com/hoaK8z7.png

(list still tbc by Pirelli, so there may be minor mistakes, but should be more or less accurate)

Ferrari chewing through these tyres. They are the only team with only 2 sets of new.

[Mogster]

Great job by Bottas, Ricciardo, Verstappen and Norris.

I think he is making more mistakes this year because of Verstappen having a competitive car and he still has the desire to win more.

Hamilton made lots of mistakes in 2010 to 2012 too IIRC. It seems pretty standard for Hamilton to be honest. Obviously, Hamilton hasn't needed to push as much when the Mercedes has been dominant.

2012 is 10 years ago though…

How many DNFs has Hamilton had since 2016. A couple from memory. His record of staying out of trouble and finishing races has been phenomenal which is a big part of his 7 WDCs.

He won’t make it past the first corner now tomorrow

[JordanMugen]

It will be an easy Verstappen win tomorrow. Hamilton will maybe get through the Mclarens through pit stops and that's it.

I'm not sure it will be that easy, sadly for Red Bull. It does look like the McLarens are quite far off in race pace (again), even though they have qualifying pace though. So perhaps a RB v Merc battle, assuming nothing weird happens.

2012 is 10 years ago though…

How many DNFs has Hamilton had since 2016. A couple from memory.

That's true. There are more kinds of mistakes than just DNFs though. For instance, Hamilton spun Albon twice and was judged at fault both times. No different, seemingly, to the old run ins with Massa many years before...

I don't agree that Hamilton has become less mistake prone (of course, Hamilton was never as mistake prone as say Tsunoda or Mazepin). It's easier to make less mistakes with a dominant vehicle.

[codetower]

So Bottas has two penalties, one him starting at the back of the grid (document 24) and another incurring a 10 place grid penalty (document 33). Does the 10 place penalty happen after the race, or is it irrelevant since he is already starting at the back?

[langedweil]

So Bottas has two penalties, one him starting at the back of the grid (document 24) and another incurring a 10 place grid penalty (document 33). Does the 10 place penalty happen after the race, or is it irrelevant since he is already starting at the back?

Waddayatalkin' about ?

[Gillian]

It will be an easy Verstappen win tomorrow. Hamilton will maybe get through the Mclarens through pit stops and that's it.

I'm not sure it will be that easy, sadly for Red Bull. It does look like the McLarens are quite far off in race pace (again), even though they have qualifying pace though. So perhaps a RB v Merc battle, assuming nothing weird happens.

2012 is 10 years ago though…

How many DNFs has Hamilton had since 2016. A couple from memory.

That's true. There are more kinds of mistakes than just DNFs though. For instance, Hamilton spun Albon twice and was judged at fault both times. No different, seemingly, to the old run ins with Massa many years before...

I don't agree that Hamilton has become less mistake prone (of course, Hamilton was never as mistake prone as say Tsunoda or Mazepin). It's easier to make less mistakes with a dominant vehicle.

2011 was a bad year, but 2010 and 2012? Other than that I agree with you.

Let's hope for a great race tomorrow.

[Mogster]

Max has had more DNFs already than Hamilton has had in his whole career.

[codetower]

So Bottas has two penalties, one him starting at the back of the grid (document 24) and another incurring a 10 place grid penalty (document 33). Does the 10 place penalty happen after the race, or is it irrelevant since he is already starting at the back?

Waddayatalkin' about ?

https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files ... lement.pdf

Decision:
10 grid position penalty.
This is in addition to the previous penalty (document 24), the competitor is still required to start the race from the rear of the starting grid

[search]

So Bottas has two penalties, one him starting at the back of the grid (document 24) and another incurring a 10 place grid penalty (document 33). Does the 10 place penalty happen after the race, or is it irrelevant since he is already starting at the back?

it's irrelevant, just a technicality, moving him to the rear in case someone (or several cars) would have had the same "back of the grid" penalty