Red Bull RB20

[FDD]

Starting with the horizontal top inlet and the vertical S ducting, it's quite possible there is a vertical component to the cooling inlet. Or maybe it just goes all the way to the tub and underneath it is the S duct. No doubt the S duct is feeding some area under the bodywork to provide both better flow conditioning inside and also clean up the boundary layer for the very important undercut flow.

Please, can you explain aero "mechanics" how S duct (if it is) "...clean up the boundary layer for the very important undercut flow."

Thank you.

Thank you, I completely forget to check this KE analysis

[Owen.C93]

ZEROPODS confirmed

Helmut Marko: Red Bull RB20 "is more than an evolution"
In an interview with ServusTV, Helmut Marko has now officially confirmed that Red Bull has gone in a similar direction with the sidepods as Mercedes in the past. "It's more than an evolution. It's a small revolution," said Marko about the RB20.

This year's solution is "not as extreme" as Mercedes' in the past, he emphasizes, but also admits that "the idea is similar" to that of the team from Brackley back then.

In the simulator and in the wind tunnel, "it all worked very well", he emphasizes, but also warns against the negative example of Mercedes, because: "They were also convinced by the data of their side box-less concept. In practice, it didn't work at all."

"And we will now see in the tests whether we can successfully implement this solution, or let's say a similar solution," says Marko, who emphasizes that the concept that Mercedes tried out two years ago is completely logical in theory.

After all, the bottom line is simply to have "less air resistance". Marko explains with a grin: "Adrian Newey always preferred cars without radiators. But of course the engine people can't do that. But it is logical."


https://www.motorsport-total.com/formel ... n-24022004

Be interesting to see how they manage drag if they move to a design like that. Unless the side pods decreasing drag on the rear wheels is NOT where a large portion of overall car drag comes from.

Has there been any independent discussion of zero pods being bad for drag? Saw some fan made CFD but it didn't seem that reliable.

[Venturiation]

ZEROPODS confirmed

Helmut Marko: Red Bull RB20 "is more than an evolution"
In an interview with ServusTV, Helmut Marko has now officially confirmed that Red Bull has gone in a similar direction with the sidepods as Mercedes in the past. "It's more than an evolution. It's a small revolution," said Marko about the RB20.

This year's solution is "not as extreme" as Mercedes' in the past, he emphasizes, but also admits that "the idea is similar" to that of the team from Brackley back then.

In the simulator and in the wind tunnel, "it all worked very well", he emphasizes, but also warns against the negative example of Mercedes, because: "They were also convinced by the data of their side box-less concept. In practice, it didn't work at all."

"And we will now see in the tests whether we can successfully implement this solution, or let's say a similar solution," says Marko, who emphasizes that the concept that Mercedes tried out two years ago is completely logical in theory.

After all, the bottom line is simply to have "less air resistance". Marko explains with a grin: "Adrian Newey always preferred cars without radiators. But of course the engine people can't do that. But it is logical."


https://www.motorsport-total.com/formel ... n-24022004

Be interesting to see how they manage drag if they move to a design like that. Unless the side pods decreasing drag on the rear wheels is NOT where a large portion of overall car drag comes from.

Has there been any independent discussion of zero pods being bad for drag? Saw some fan made CFD but it didn't seem that reliable.

there was a discussion that the W13 was so draggy because it was designed to run a low DF wing because the floor is generating so much DF, but with the porpoising they reduced heavly DF and brought the big wing to compensate for that according to hamilton

[SiLo]

ZEROPODS confirmed

Helmut Marko: Red Bull RB20 "is more than an evolution"
In an interview with ServusTV, Helmut Marko has now officially confirmed that Red Bull has gone in a similar direction with the sidepods as Mercedes in the past. "It's more than an evolution. It's a small revolution," said Marko about the RB20.

This year's solution is "not as extreme" as Mercedes' in the past, he emphasizes, but also admits that "the idea is similar" to that of the team from Brackley back then.

In the simulator and in the wind tunnel, "it all worked very well", he emphasizes, but also warns against the negative example of Mercedes, because: "They were also convinced by the data of their side box-less concept. In practice, it didn't work at all."

"And we will now see in the tests whether we can successfully implement this solution, or let's say a similar solution," says Marko, who emphasizes that the concept that Mercedes tried out two years ago is completely logical in theory.

After all, the bottom line is simply to have "less air resistance". Marko explains with a grin: "Adrian Newey always preferred cars without radiators. But of course the engine people can't do that. But it is logical."


https://www.motorsport-total.com/formel ... n-24022004

Be interesting to see how they manage drag if they move to a design like that. Unless the side pods decreasing drag on the rear wheels is NOT where a large portion of overall car drag comes from.

Has there been any independent discussion of zero pods being bad for drag? Saw some fan made CFD but it didn't seem that reliable.

Not exactly, it was the Vanja CFD work. The percentage increase in drag seemed large enough that it might also account for a portion of overall car drag. Especially when it was still slow with smaller wings.

[Venturiation]

Be interesting to see how they manage drag if they move to a design like that. Unless the side pods decreasing drag on the rear wheels is NOT where a large portion of overall car drag comes from.

Has there been any independent discussion of zero pods being bad for drag? Saw some fan made CFD but it didn't seem that reliable.

Not exactly, it was the Vanja CFD work. The percentage increase in drag seemed large enough that it might also account for a portion of overall car drag. Especially when it was still slow with smaller wings.

Helmut says that this reduces drag

"And we will now see in the tests whether we can successfully implement this solution, or let's say a similar solution," says Marko, who emphasizes that the concept that Mercedes tried out two years ago is completely logical in theory .

Because the bottom line is simply to have “less air resistance”. Marko explains with a smile: "Adrian Newey would always prefer cars without radiators. But of course the engine people won't allow that. But it's logical."

[f1isgood]

Now that there's so much discussion about Zeropod "speculation" in the RB20 thread, does anyone have a picture of the Mercedes Floor from 2022? Especially before the Spain upgrade? I recall seeing a floor after Hamilton's crash at Austria, which was just rounded in the middle and had none of the features that the RB18 had -- in fact it was the most Vanilla floor I had seen these regulations apart from Williams in 2023.

I am wondering if Mercedes lacked the floor expertise to make the W13 work, which Red Bull might have now or might have had for a while now.

[Luscion]

Bernie Collins seems to think its a dummy car and the 'zeropods' talk is misdirection

[temporal]

Now that there's so much discussion about Zeropod "speculation" in the RB20 thread, does anyone have a picture of the Mercedes Floor from 2022? Especially before the Spain upgrade? I recall seeing a floor after Hamilton's crash at Austria, which was just rounded in the middle and had none of the features that the RB18 had -- in fact it was the most Vanilla floor I had seen these regulations apart from Williams in 2023.

I am wondering if Mercedes lacked the floor expertise to make the W13 work, which Red Bull might have now or might have had for a while now.

[Venturiation]

Bernie Collins seems to think its a dummy car and the 'zeropods' talk is misdirection

That's not what she says
She said she don't think it's true but if it's true it means redbull have found big gains in the simulator, but did they spot mercedes's missteps

[vorticism]

Reminder that sentences, paragraphs, articles, and video selfies are not "parts visible on the car."

[Luscion]

Bernie Collins seems to think its a dummy car and the 'zeropods' talk is misdirection

That's not what she says
She said she don't think it's true but if it's true it means redbull have found big gains in the simulator, but did they spot mercedes's missteps

for some reason i cant get the clip from twitter to work, it just links back to the entire podcast but in the clip she said her years in f1 have made her suspicious and think its rb just having a joke, a dummy car. Asking if they've possibly gone with misdirection and would be surprised that they've gone with it

[TimW]

Note that according to Mark Hughes the car tested in Silverstone and in the studio is exactly what Helmut Marko describes (also see his replies in the comment section):

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/arti ... ame-again/

A slim vertical radiator inlet, sited low and hugging the chassis sides, exposed a simply enormous undercut for the front of the sidepod. That sidepod itself was way smaller than before and the whole rear bodywork of the car stopped very short, revealing lots of volume for the airflows to the rear wing and diffuser to exploit.

Hi Rick. Yes the computerised renders had a few fake details notably the radiator inlet. But the car at the launch - which I was stood about 2 metres from - was the car from Silverstone testing the previous day and was very much real. Albeit with a fake floor fitted which just had flat edges.

[vorticism]

"Zeropods" has for the press become a convenient buzzword that we might have to interpret as "small sidepods of any shape." Ultimately if the sidepods shown thus far are dummies the real ones might be something like a deflated version of the FW44 sidepods. This could also be combined with a sidewall to make a sidepod waterslide larger than any seen thus far.

2023
https://s9.gifyu.com/images/SFwsA.gif

+1 seems feasible and would match with the non-creased sidepod on the reveal RB20. You made this last year?

[f1isgood]

Now that there's so much discussion about Zeropod "speculation" in the RB20 thread, does anyone have a picture of the Mercedes Floor from 2022? Especially before the Spain upgrade? I recall seeing a floor after Hamilton's crash at Austria, which was just rounded in the middle and had none of the features that the RB18 had -- in fact it was the most Vanilla floor I had seen these regulations apart from Williams in 2023.

I am wondering if Mercedes lacked the floor expertise to make the W13 work, which Red Bull might have now or might have had for a while now.

https://f1i.autojournal.fr/wp-content/u ... _w13_5.jpg

Thanks! If this is the pre-Austria floor, then I don't see much changes. I believe RB had a very different floor geometry and also a floor that was more developed than the other parts of the car from the beginning. They might make a "zeropod" work with their floor/suspension potentially.

[KimiRai]

in-depth study conducted by engineers Emanuele Litrico and Luca Giotti on the hydraulic system for reducing aerodynamic drag, inspired by the architectural brilliance of Red Bull RB19.

https://www.funoanalisitecnica.com/2024 ... r-drs.html