Flexible wings 2011

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

@WilliamsF1 - I'm not asking for Red Bull to be disqualified or excluded, I'm asking for the FIA to do their job. If they can't create static tests that stop Red Bull breaking the rules then they should use photo and video evidence as they have done many times in the past.

I dont see why people have a problem understanding this. Its common sense that the car is doing something to contravene the rule.
The test needs to change or the FIA are failing in their responsibilities.

[FW17]

@johnsoneviltwin - I guess FIA has accepted flexing within limits set for tests are allowable.

@myurr - when did FIA use photo and video evidence to govern technical regulations?

[Richard]

Williams is spot on. Video and photos can only inform discussions between FIA and the teams. The FIA can only judge something illegal if it gets to the scrutineers’ garage. IFAIK Ferrari and McLaren avoided testing (and hence formal judgement) by not running the relevant parts.

[myurr]

@johnsoneviltwin - I guess FIA has accepted flexing within limits set for tests are allowable.

@myurr - when did FIA use photo and video evidence to govern technical regulations?

The FIA have used non-test based observations, photos and video evidence for years usually to have a quite word with the teams and tell them to modify their cars. For example: McLaren bridge wing flexing, Red Bull rear wing flexing (according to Ted's pit lane report from a couple of years back), Michelin contact patch, etc. It was also rumoured that many of the late nights Red Bull had last year were due to the FIA quietly having a word with them about parts that broke the rules, requiring makeshift changes.

How do the FIA police their mass damper rules? I could be completely wrong but I suspect that they don't have an explicit test or template that they put on the car that magically detects a mass damper - they eyeball the car and prod and poke it.

How do the FIA judge whether someone has left the track and gained an advantage? They watch the video and make a subjective judgement. There are all kinds of precedents like this. All the FIA need to do is what they usually do - have a quiet word with Red Bull to say "stop the front wing flexing or we'll crack down on you with additional tests and you could be disqualified." If Red Bull don't change their ways then hit them with new tests, which should include photo and video evidence.

This is the 21st century, I'm pretty sure we can do something more sophisticated than hanging some weights on the car and measuring it with a ruler.

[vall]

How about mandating all cars carry a camera in a location where they can see the front wing and how much it bends and then just adjudge from that? That would be consistent.

I was thinking the same. If they place to cameras on the right spots, it should be pretty easy to control the FW bending.

[FW17]

If Red Bull don't change their ways then hit them with new tests, which should include photo and video evidence.

This is the 21st century, I'm pretty sure we can do something more sophisticated than hanging some weights on the car and measuring it with a ruler.

So i guess this is a better answer than hanging weights (looks like a recipe for more speculation)

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

This is the 21st century, I'm pretty sure we can do something more sophisticated than hanging some weights on the car and measuring it with a ruler.

=D>

Like also to add that I think Charlie Whiting is doing his best impression of an Ostrich sticking its head in the sand.
The FIA made the rules. Red Bull are showing us that through ingenuity, they can work around the FIA rule. Is it other teams responsibility to bleat, or is the FIA's to come up with a way of proving what we can see before our eyes?

If I was Todt, I would look at getting someone who is tougher at enforcing rules.

@Williams F1
Do you not think the wing/nose flexes?
We have been over the fact its very easy to get GP spec cars into a wind tunnel, tested using laser or sonic measuring devices under FIA auspices.
Simples

[myurr]

If Red Bull don't change their ways then hit them with new tests, which should include photo and video evidence.

This is the 21st century, I'm pretty sure we can do something more sophisticated than hanging some weights on the car and measuring it with a ruler.

So i guess this is a better answer than hanging weights (looks like a recipe for more speculation)

Yes, because it's impossible to judge anything from a photo and those weights are working so well...

Maybe Button should claim that he didn't overtake Massa off track and it was all an optic illusion. Just what would the FIA have to say in reply to that one!!

[FW17]

@Williams F1
Do you not think the wing/nose flexes?
We have been over the fact its very easy to get GP spec cars into a wind tunnel, tested using laser or sonic measuring devices under FIA auspices.
Simples

I know that the wing is flexing, The team did not break any written rule so why should the system be banned or rules changed (in the short term).

However this is F1, rules need to be constantly updated without discounting the hard work of engineers and teams to find loopholes and invested their time and money.

Something I like about the new FIA which is not a pro-ferrari like in the old days when anything that disadvantaged Ferrari or Max's ego was banned.

[myurr]

The team did not break any written rule

If you honestly believe that then we're never going to see eye to eye. To me it's a clear breach of the rules and a complete mockery of the FIAs tests.

[Richard]

Can we keep this thread to discussion of the technical properties of the wings please?

Discussions about testing methodologies are in the other thread viewtopic.php?f=1&t=9795&view=unread#unread

[siskue2005]

Maybe Button should claim that he didn't overtake Massa off track and it was all an optic illusion. Just what would the FIA have to say in reply to that one!!

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Can we keep this thread to discussion of the technical properties of the wings please?

Technically speaking, they are cheating or are bending the rules. This is very much on topic.
Unless we have another subtopical thread. Besides any ideas put forward will speculative at best. The entire grid hasnt cottoned on after 16 months, what makes you think F1technical topical page will succeed where others have not?

No to belittle contributions by most posters, but c'mon.

[Dragonfly]

OT: I am afraid 2 or 3 people are putting themselves at risk of falling into a maniacal depression. Only because of their personal interpretation of the rules and conviction unsupported by any reliable technical evidence that RBR are doing something illegal.
And because the majority, FIA inclusive, does not support their stance, it seems to them as unbearable situation.
Guys, I am sure at FIA they know perfectly well that they cannot ban physics with a stupid rule. But at the same time being THE FIA, no one dares to come up and change the formulation of the stupid rule for the sake of the senility of more emotional fans.
If you are absolutely convinced in your rightness, write to the FIA. Or, even better, apply for a job or run for a president.
But please, stop flooding the thread going round and again like a broken gramophone.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Maniacal depression? You confuse that for CLARIFICATION?

Take another look:
http://www.zocial.tv/today/Sports/11993 ... definition

Then tell me, the wing isnt flexing and Red Bull arent finding a clever way to circumvent the test.............