Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
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godlameroso
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Re: Honda Power Unit

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3 places up?
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RedNEO
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Re: Honda Power Unit

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3 places up and right on the heels of Redbull/Mercedes should be the target

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Honda Power Unit

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They should target lap times. Anything 6 seconds faster thdn Mercedes are now should do it.
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godlameroso
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Re: Honda Power Unit

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PlatinumZealot wrote:They should target lap times. Anything 6 seconds faster thdn Mercedes are now should do it.
You think anyone will get into the 1:16's in Barcelona? In 2010 Webbah pulled out a 1:19 in q3, 1:22 was this year's pole. I think we'll see some 19's in testing, I'll be very surprised if we see anything lower than an 1:18 from anyone.
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Juzh
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Re: Honda Power Unit

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godlameroso wrote:
PlatinumZealot wrote:They should target lap times. Anything 6 seconds faster thdn Mercedes are now should do it.
You think anyone will get into the 1:16's in Barcelona? In 2010 Webbah pulled out a 1:19 in q3, 1:22 was this year's pole. I think we'll see some 19's in testing, I'll be very surprised if we see anything lower than an 1:18 from anyone.
Monza is one of the tracks where most gains are to be expected. 1.19 will be nothing.

edit lol. meant barcelona.
Last edited by Juzh on 14 Dec 2016, 23:21, edited 1 time in total.

Facts Only
Facts Only
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Re: Honda Power Unit

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RedNEO wrote:3 places up and right on the heels of Redbull/Mercedes should be the target
If thats the 'Target' they might as well pack up and go home now.
"A pretentious quote taken out of context to make me look deep" - Some old racing driver

Joseki
Joseki
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Re: Honda Power Unit

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I think their only target should be to improve the best they can, I can't see any clear indication of what the other are doing so nobody really know if a fixed timed lap target is enough.

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godlameroso
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Re: Honda Power Unit

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Back on topic sort of, I saw this crummy translation of an Italian article.

"Because Lorenzo Sassi, chief engine designer, would have made a step back ...? The reason is quite simple: the engineers of the Scuderia this year have focused on increasing the turbo boost pressure reaching peaks of over 5 bar, while in the previous configuration is not exceeded 3.5 bar."

http://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/ferrar ... ve-858709/
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mclaren111
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Re: Honda Power Unit

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godlameroso wrote:Back on topic sort of, I saw this crummy translation of an Italian article.

"Because Lorenzo Sassi, chief engine designer, would have made a step back ...? The reason is quite simple: the engineers of the Scuderia this year have focused on increasing the turbo boost pressure reaching peaks of over 5 bar, while in the previous configuration is not exceeded 3.5 bar."

http://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/ferrar ... ve-858709/

Relates to Honda Power Unit how ??

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godlameroso
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Re: Honda Power Unit

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We were talking about boost pressures. Which makes sense, because the 2015 Ferrari unit was running 3.5 bar, and Honda managed 4.0 with their in the V compressor this year.

But now this new information comes out and says 5 bar is possible. So in other words 5 bar or higher should be Honda's goal for the 2016 P.U.
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Postmoe
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Re: Honda Power Unit

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godlameroso wrote:We were talking about boost pressures. Which makes sense, because the 2015 Ferrari unit was running 3.5 bar, and Honda managed 4.0 with their in the V compressor this year.

But now this new information comes out and says 5 bar is possible. So in other words 5 bar or higher should be Honda's goal for the 2016 P.U.
From a development point of view, those kind of targets are the most sensible. Reach the numbers of the competition first and then develop further with your engine layout.

A grid or laptime improvement is of little importance as it could be related to other factors, it could be contingent: like when Ferrari should have won the title because of the inability of Red Bull to manage Pirelli tyres with safety.

Joseki
Joseki
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Re: Honda Power Unit

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murasama, the japanese user on the autosport forum, posted some quotes/articles from Hasegawa. I don't know if can link his post but it's really worth to read.

Roostfactor
Roostfactor
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Re: Honda Power Unit

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Joseki, can you copy/paste?

Joseki
Joseki
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Re: Honda Power Unit

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[quote name="muramasa" post="7794105" timestamp="1481561245"]
 
all the dot/bullet • parts are for Hasegawa quotes
non dots are contents of article, non-hasegawa quotes etc
 
 
==========================
 
Malaysia
 
 

Friday
http://f1sokuho.mopita.com/pc/free/inde ... t=-1&at=90
2016年10月1日
 
 
(on new spec PU)
  •      To be frank, we couldn't make the kind of update that we had wanted. Originally we were aiming to increase the power by making bit more significant development in combustion, but that didn't go well.
So Honda used token for something else or less (compromised or 2nd best solution). But why couldn't Honda take a bit more time for development in the area to complete it before using tokens?
  •     We couldn't afford to take any more time.  You have to shift R&D from this year to next and focus fully on next year's at some point eventually, but postponing that for the final 4 races was not an option for us.
ie time out, so that Honda introduced rather minor or compromised update instead. This update is the final version of 2016 unit and Honda has no plan to use the remaining 1 token.
  • - Both JB and FA received an update using 1 token for weight reduction in component that is not of engine block itself (thought to be exhaust).
  • - FA's new unit (friday one) received another 1 token for reliability improvement for what has been a concern so far.
  • Applied modification for the purpose of reliability improvement using 1 token. Another 1 token for weight reduction for non-engine parts (exhaust pipe)
  • However 2 tokens in total is the number that Honda is applying to FIA, so we dong know how FIA will judge on it. (remaining token at this moment is 1 btw)
  •     Thanks to the improvement of reliability, you can use the PU with more comfort/security as a result, so we consider that this should lead to performance improvement too, but unfortunately it (extent of improvement) is not that significant.
 
 
========================
Saturday
http://f1sokuho.mopita.com/pc/free/inde ... t=-1&at=75
2016年10月2日
  • tbh i was giving up on going to Q3 this time because we were behind in sector 1 and 2.
  • (on why JB could set competitive time, esp at sector 3, to go to Q3) in his warm up lap JB let Bottas go in S1, also went slower overall in order to not catch up to and get stuck behind Bottas in JB's own attack lap. Due to this effort, temp of soft tyre didnt rise too high, so that he could display competitive performance in S3 too.
 
 
================================--
Sunday
http://f1sokuho.mopita.com/pc/free/inde ... 2815&tt=-1
2016年10月3日
  • (on Alonso) Somehow suffered from severe oversteer suddenly after switching to hards. (at VSC timing around lap 10. then couldnt up pace so switched to new softs on lap 27. ALO stopped again at lap 40 for another new softs. Bottas who switched to hards from mediums on lap 29 stayed out to finish the race on 1 stopper)   
  • It was unexpected that Bottas was able to go with 1 stopper. But finishing at 7th from starting at the back of the grid is encouraging for Suzuka.
  • Considering our race pace today, we couldve aimed for 5th and 6th so it's disappointing. Especially for Jenson, timing of VSC was unfortunate. But he displayed calm solid driving and finished 9th starting from P9 in a chaotic race, so it was good race.
 
 
============================================
summary
https://sportiva.shueisha.co.jp/clm/mot ... _split_f1/
2016.10.05
  • (on PU upgrade) To be frank, we were not able to make update as we had wanted.
  • Originally we were aiming to make good horse power increase by bit more significant development on combustion, but that didn't go well, and we run out of time so we decided to introduce minor update here.
  • Calling this upgrade "spec 3.5". Actually we wanted to call it spec 4.0, but since we are not able to introduce what we originally wanted, so it's spec 3.5. But feels like 3.1 actually.  
a. 1 token for modification in engine block:  spec 3.5
b. 1 token for weight reduction of exhaust pipe (for both FA and JB as the component is outside 5unit/season reg)
later on, FIA deemed (a), = the engine block modification, as "reliability upgrade", so it ended up as token free upgrade.
  • New exhaust is significantly lighter than the prev one, to the extent that mclaren side got worried and asked "it's too light, are you really sure it's ok?".   
  • At first there was an opinion that we should introduce new spec engine to both cars at Malaysia, but that way, we would lose all possibilities/opportunities for this weekend (cuz both cars need to start from back of the grid), so we decided to introduce for Fernando only.
(on the choice of exchanging back to old spec, the spec 3.0, from Sat for Nando)
  • To be honest, we questioned about giving new unit only for Fernando (while not for JB), that was one of the reasons. Even though the extent of the update is not that significant, you can use it more aggressively for the amount of improved reliability, so there would be inevitable difference b/w the two. We didnt want to have difference there, so reverted Fernando's pu back to prev spec to make it even/equal. We wanted to make it fair.
  • If anything the decision was made according to my personal opinion. Of course there were various opinions within the team, like, ALO should continue to use the new spec for Sat/Sun, introduce new spec for both cars at once, should not introduce new spec here altogether, etc etc, there were twists and turns in the discussion. But at the end, I made the final decision. It was Thursday night when I decided.
  • Another thing is that there is not that too much difference in performance between the prev unit (3.0) and the new unit (3.5). Suppose spec 4.0 had made it in time, we wouldve defo done that way (introduce the new spec for Alonso only). Needless to say, the result is more important than making it fair. However, there is not too much difference, so no reason to persist with using new spec stubbornly, I judged.
(on quali)
  • I was thrilled with JB's Q2 attack lap. We were behind in S1 and S2, so to be honest, I gave up already at that point and wasn't watching the last part. Then overturned it in S3 and got P8, so I was surprised, like "oh! we are in front!"(laughs). Today I was ready to accept that we wouldnt be able to go through to Q3, so that attack run was fantastic.
(on race)
  • In terms of race pace in this race, if we used it fully we would've got 5th and 6th esp as cars in front pack retired, so that's disappointing part. Pace on track was good, and there was good possibility that we couldve jumped ahead by strategy, but these are what racing is about, so.
  • Fighting squarely against FI. The positions can easily be swapped by tiny things, and in fact at malaysia GP we were ahead in Q2 but they went ahead in Q3. In that sense, right now FI, Williams and Mclaren are fighting for the position of the best team after the top 3. At tracks where full throttle rate is higher, Williams demonstrates us the difference/might of power, but at more normal tracks we wont get defeated anymore, I think. It will be similar for Suzuka too, we think we should be able to compete on similar performance level as this race.  
  • (Q: can get 7th after 6 cars of top 3 teams?) That's possible certainly.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
===========================================
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===========================================

 Japan
 
  


maco-akebono relationship 10 year anniversary PC on 5th Oct
[img=http://response.jp/imgs/zoom1/1104394.jpg]
[img=http://cdn-image.as-web.jp/2016/10/0521 ... 64x510.jpg]
http://f1sokuho.mopita.com/pc/free/inde ... 170&at=135
http://response.jp/article/2016/10/04/282986.html
2016年10月5日
 

"In order to develop "ultimate brake" you have to challenge F1"
"There is no point in participating in F1 unless partnering with top team, so approached mclaren. Then the negotiation proceeded quickly to the stage where mclaren wanted to hold technical meeting with akebono. In the collaboration relationship, mclaren never asked us about durability and rigidity (meaning mc always trusted quality).
"In the past 10 years of partnership, akebono brake learned many things like technology improvement and engineer training method from mclaren, and in turn recognize that we contributed to the result improvement as well."
(akebono president Nobumoto)


"In 2007 mc-akebono joint development of brake system has begun, and we strive to improve performance every year. Especially for Brake-By-Wire system that was introduced upon reg change in 2014, akebono provided the system that met mclaren's demand perfectly, and materialized performance improvement and significant weight reduction. Consequently, succeeded in making the system weight lighter by 500gram, obtaining the gain equivalent to 0.015sec/lap.
"lap time reduction is expected in 2017 due to reg change, so burden on brakes increases significantly, therefore completely different brake system will be required for next year, thus conducting development together closely atm.
(Mclaren engineer Imai)
 
 
 
"we believe close relationship is essential blah blah
(Eric B)
 
 
"Innovation, dedication and determination are blah blah...........maco happy blah blah
(John Cooper*, commercial & financial director of mclaren racing)
*not sure about spelling

 

==========================
Random info on Suzuka week
http://f1sokuho.mopita.com/pc/free/inde ... 1170&at=75
2016年10月8日
  • (regarding Suzuka race) Even if it is the same as a race itself, I feel tense in this special atmosphere.
  • In this past few weeks, when I was asked about Suzuka, I have always answered "it's the most important race" naturally, but today I walked down the paddock and felt deeply emotional to the extent that my previous words were not enough. Of course I have desire for achieving better result and going for more performance, but I felt strong sense that I've come back here finally.
  • (regarding "GP2 engine" last year) This year should be fine about that at least.
"I think it's just our feeling, but (attitude of) this year spectators is warmer than last year." (one unnamed Honda staff quoted)


- On Tuesday (4th Oct), senior engineers of Honda took Mclaren engineers to visit HRD Sakura in order to hold briefing with both sides bringing their own development strategy and data.

-Stoffel Vandorne visited Sakura for the first time just before heading to Malaysia GP.

- On Wedsnesday (5 Oct), Dennis and Capito visited Sakura, Dennis made speech there in front of the staff.
- Those high ranked people from both sides incl Hasegawa held briefing at Aoyama as well, before arriving at Suzuka on Thursday (6 Oct)


ALO took subway in Tokyo
"Always take tube when in Tokyo, it's good stuff, even tho sometimes it's difficult because direction signs are complicated"  (ALO)


- Thursday night, an welcome party at one section of grand stand for teams&media personel was produced and held by Honda, which used to be traditional event for JPGP. Last year they abstained because it was not long after the passing of Jules Bianchi, but finally came back for this year.

- On Thursday, mc drivers visited Honda factory in Suzuka city and made greeting to 7,000 workers there.
 
 

 =====================================
Friday
http://f1sokuho.mopita.com/pc/free/inde ... =-1&at=105
http://f1sokuho.mopita.com/pc/free/inde ... t=-1&at=90
2016年10月7日

(FIA's official release on Friday revealed that Honda's token spent at Malaysia was "1 token". So In the end FIA deemed the engine block modification as reliability upgrade so no token consumed.)
 
(on the use of spec 3.5 and 3.0 for the remainder of the season)
  • If you used spec 3.5 from Malaysia, one PU wont last until the final race as there are 6 races remaining. So will use spec 3.0 at Malaysia and Mexico.
Regarding the weight reduction of exhaust pipe, Hasegawa didnt reveal the number, but there was a hint for it. Alonso's crash in FP1 resulted in damaging the rear wing, but no particular or significant damage to the rest of the chassis, Alonso even returned to the pit on its own. Despite that, exhaust pipe was damaged as well in the crash, and that was "as planned".
  • The exhaust has broken exactly as calculated in our simulation.
 
====================================
Saturday
http://f1sokuho.mopita.com/pc/free/inde ... t=-1&at=60
2016年10月8日
  • To be honest, I have no idea why we were so terrible like this.
  • The weakest point is power, so we are still lacking a lot in there.
  • Also unable to press on throttle so exit speed at mid-high speed corners was slow
  • (on why it was good at similar characteristic tracks like Spa and Sepang but suddenly struggling at Suzuka) Braking must be good, but that didnt work as advantage this time.
  • (on his comment at Malaysia GP that they wanted to fight in the group right behind top 3 at Suzuka) Feeling embarrassed so I want to withdraw that remark. Today we were far from the level where we can fight properly
 
========================================
Sunday
http://f1sokuho.mopita.com/pc/free/inde ... t=-1&at=30
2016年10月10日
  • in terms of both performance and result, as well as contents of the race itself, it ended up extremely disappointing result with nothing positive whatsoever.
  • (on JB's PU swap for the race) Having ended up at P17 in Quali, it's more advantageous to consume the penalty here rather than take penalty at Austin.
  • Long run pace wasnt bad actually, but even then for today P12 or 13 was the best possible result we wouldve been able to achieve. Total defeat. There was nothing good in car performance, power and strategy.
  • at post race briefing, Mclaren was saying "the issue/subject of the car has become clear".
  • we cannot finish the season like this
 
 
=================================
summary
https://sportiva.shueisha.co.jp/clm/mot ... /f1_split/
2016.10.12
 http://f1sokuho.mopita.com/pc/free/inde ... 3323&tt=-1
2016年10月17日
  • Taking Malaysia result into consideration, I thought we would be bit more competitive. I thought Q3 would be difficult, but never thought about losing at Q1. Not that competitors went faster, but rather that we were slower. It was "turn around and there is Manor there right behind us"..... Quite far from competitive level.
  • I consider that engine power is the weakest point, so it's fine to be considered that it was lack of power that is to blame for the lack of top speed. However, here is the type of track where you're adding speed on top of another throughout the whole track, so if you cannot ride on speed nicely at corner exits, speed trap figure doesnt come good either. Therefore, not just lack of engine power but also being unable to press on throttle was the major factor.
"We were intending to overtake both of mclarens during the final VSC period by changing to new tyres. However we were unable to pass Alonso. The difference in PU b/w Honda and ours is not as big as being talked publicly. Rather, it looks to me that people are shifting blame for mclaren's deficiency onto Honda."
  (Jun Matsuzaki, tyre/vehicle engineer of Force India, ex-Bridgestone man)
  • Here is a track where comprehensive performance of the car is demanded/trailed, in other words, bad at this track equals that the car as a package overall is bad, so it's disappointing. For example, it was bad particularly at esses. Any track have section like esses, but it's rare that track as the whole is like that. Suzuka is full of such consecutive corners, so the car's true performance has been exposed explicitly, I reckon.
"Malaysia is somewhat similar characteristic as Suzuka, but high grip of newly resurfaced tarmac might have been covering the deficit (unnamed team personnel quoted)
  • In addition to car's performance, strategy didnt go well, and result and contents of the race, there was absolutely nothing good about in the race. Everything didnt go well. Even if the car is bit slow, it should be still ok as long as we are able to gain positions by good SC timing with spot on strategy or taking advantage of accident or whatever because result is everything for the race. But today we had nothing of that kind.
  • We recognize lack of our capability of course, and we've been feeling and accepting the frustration for lack of capability painfully long before the season start. But we wanted to get decent result or make the race more exciting/cheerful by exhibiting our good performance, but we couldnt do even that at all. I'm feeling disappointed in that way.
  • For race the result is everything, so just making hard effort cannot be an excuse I think. About drivers, car, PU, all the staff..equally so for all. Unless there is result, there is no point in saying "effort was amazing", imo. Therefore we as a team as a whole take this result seriously. Team as a whole is in atmosphere like this (referring to Hasegawa's own face of stern/serious expression)  
  • (at post-race briefing) team staff were saying that car's issue has become clear. If anything, that's what is positive about this. We cannot finish the season like this.
 
 
 
 
===========================================
===========================================
===========================================
 
USA
 
 
 
Friday
http://f1sokuho.mopita.com/pc/free/inde ... 3471&tt=-1
2016年10月22日
 
 
"(asked about mclaren's chassis/aero characteristics of stiff suspension of less pitch/roll with aero based on it) Mclaren has Mclaren's philosophy, and I'd like to trust that"
(Alonso quote from Thursday)
 
  • (on team bringing and conducting a lot of testing menu at FP) Jenson was in charge of trialing softer suspension setting, Fernando with harder setting, but it seems the soft setting was not JB's liking.
  • which direction we are going for the remainder of the weekend, it will be decided in the briefing to be held later.
  • (Q: Did you overcome Suzuka's slump?) Cannot tell for certain yet. At Suzuka we were within top 10 on the first day as well, so...Whatever it is, right now we are losing confidence, so I cannot say anything bold.
 
 
==========================================
Saturday
http://f1sokuho.mopita.com/pc/free/inde ... 3510&tt=-1
2016年10月23日
 
  • (on Quali result - JB out at Q1, FA P12 at Q2) This time we modified setting a lot, and in the end we run with harder suspension setting than at Suzuka, but at this moment we cannot tell whether this reflects our true performance in full or not. I hope this does not result in cutting off the pre-Japan upward trend completely.
  • Drivers were plagued with lack of grip, but was not complaining about suspension setting per se.
 
 
=================================
Sunday
http://f1sokuho.mopita.com/pc/free/inde ... t=-1&at=15
2016年10月24日
 
  • Today's result is solely down to drivers.
At first, the team were concerned about tyre degradation and considered that the tyre would likely not last til checkered flag, so there was an opinion that Alonso should be told to not to push too much. But after all they reached conclusion of "leave everything to the driver". It was Andrea Stella who made that final decision.
  • Pit was informing Alonso the remaining number of laps only.
 
  • Spiritually we were able to get back momentum so it was good, but technically there still remains problems. But to take into consideration that we did not drag that problem into USA, what we can say for now is "it was bad in Suzuka only".
 
============================================
summary
https://sportiva.shueisha.co.jp/clm/mot ... __split_5/
2016.10.27
 
Upon the defeat at Suzuka, team held "big meeting" to discuss thoroughly to analyze what happened and identify the cause. Also, Mclaren's senior engineers were supposed to pop around Sakura after Suzuka race to hold technical briefing towards next season, but cancelled the appointment and headed back to Woking urgently. (info in the article)
"It may be too late to realize/make action now, but considering development of next year's car, it's still not too late yet so it's better." (unnamed team personel quoted)
The problem is that what's been calculated on simulation cannot be reproduced in actual on track running. So the setting prepared based on simulation doesnt work well, prompting setup change at venue, and laptime does not come. Take Suzuka as an example, they were only able to set a lap time that's slower by 1-2sec than the similated lap time. (info in the article - info by an unspecified team personnel or source)
 
 
  • (after Quali) It is a fact that this time we shifted setup to different direction from what's previously been done, that itself went well, but this is our true performance, or because it went into wrong direction, we dont know which one yet at this moment.
 
  • (on race) Actually, in the early stage of the race Alonso was running 1sec/lap faster than Jenson, so engineer Imai (of mclaren, ex-Bridgestone) was saying "at this rate it's gonna be severe with tyre", and there was a talk in the discussion that "if push too hard now tyre will not last, so shouldn't push". But eventually Andrea Stella made the final decision "let's tell him the count of remaining laps only and leave the rest of it to Fernando". To be frank, today it's all down to driver.
[/quote]
 
 
[quote name="muramasa" post="7794751" timestamp="1481645040"]
 
all the dot/bullet • parts are for Hasegawa quotes
non dots are either of contents of article, non-hasegawa quotes etc
 
 
==========================
 
Mexico
 

 
Friday
http://f1sokuho.mopita.com/pc/free/inde ... t=-1&at=15
2016年10月29日
 
  • (regarding special PU setting for high altitude environment of 2250m - 760hpa at FP1, normally or near sea level it's around 1,000hpa btw) As soon as FP started, we encountered the issue that (turbo) rpm got too high. If rpm gets too high, waste gates open, and if boost pressure gets too high, blowoff/bypass bulb opens, but what's difficult about it is adjustment.
  • At Mexico, we use turbo's rpm at a range 20% higher than usual.
  • If you open blow-off bulb, power drops abruptly, but we made various adjustments so as to maintain output level while keeping rpm and boost pressure under control
  • In terms of power unit, we were able to confirm that we have made big improvement over last year's. There is no problem about deployment either.
  • (On Alonso concluding the session early in FP2) To be on safe side because abnormality in braking system was detected.
  • (on Alonso engine choice) We will make the final decision on which engine to use for the rest of the weekend, either continue on with spec 3.0 or change to 3.5, on Friday night
 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Saturday
http://f1sokuho.mopita.com/pc/free/inde ... t=-1&at=15
http://www.as-web.jp/f1/63119?all
2016年10月30日

On Alonso's engine usage status (some press over-reacted to ALO's comment on PU and sent totally wrong reports):
- Using spec 3.0 for Mexico is pre-planned and purely strategical*,  it's simply to do with mileage matter (ALO's spec 3.0 unit that was used on Malaysia Sat and Sun was a freshly introduced unit there, not prev used unit. His spec 3.5 unit that was introduced and used at Malaysia friday would have to go through more than 5 races - JP, US, MEX, BR, AD, and MY Friday - , so they intend to use the spec 3.0 unit sometime to save mileage of 3.5) .
[*Hasegawa has already said they would use spec 3.0 for Mexico on Japan GP Friday as I posted in prev post]
- Then eventually decided to go for 3.0 for the remainder of the weekend as continuing on with 3.0 with high altitude setting properly applied on friday was deemed more beneficial than using 3.5 unit (new/better spec unit but you have to make the high altitude adjustment all over again from scratch on Saturday).
  • Alonso told in post quali meeting that "today the PU was competitive" for the first time this season.
  • But it doesnt mean it's exceeding rivals, just that it is possible to / enough for fight properly. But it was the first time this year that we didn't get criticized for PU by him.
  • Of course it's certain that PU setting has been sophisticated more and more, but today's result is not only down to improvement of PU but also to the effort on mclaren side in improving drag.
 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sunday
http://f1sokuho.mopita.com/pc/free/inde ... t=-1&at=15
2016年10月31日
 
(on rather disappointing result of 12th and 13th)
  • One thing is that everyone else was on 1 stopper.
Then VSC, which enabled some more cars that started on SS 1 stopper too, and got stuck behind Sauber Renault, STR etc
  • I think we were faster than competitors in terms of race pace, but didnt have speed enough to overtake them. Especially Sauber was fast today....
  • In the 2nd half of the race Fernando suffered from ICE malfunction and was forced to detune the engine, and Jenson suffered temp rise in ERS, so we were not able to race with maximum performance in later stage of the race.
 
 
・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・
summary
https://sportiva.shueisha.co.jp/clm/mot ... plit___f1/
2016.11.03
http://www.as-web.jp/f1/63119?all
2016.11.07
 
(on the effect of high altitude, low ambient pressure condition on PU/output) [post Friday session]
  • To start with conclusion, there was not much of an influence. For sure you had to make various adjustments to get there, so initially at the start of the running we encountered quite a few problems, but as a result of applying tuning, there was almost no loss in output.
  • If I say it's ok it will break down, so I try not to say that much (laughs). rpm of TC is greater than usual by 20%, so. But that's within the range considered/examined/verified at Sakura beforehand so no problem, the engineers were telling.
  • In terms of PU it has improved quite a lot compared to last year. Especially the turbo setting that has been adjusted to suit this track is functioning well. Fernando told, "here I didn't feel any loss of power at all. it was competitive" for the first time this season. Of course it's not about "exceeding rivals" but merely "able to compete" though, but it was the first time in this season that we didn't get complained by him. But in terms of a car as a whole, we're struggling.
  • It was too cold, so we couldn't make tyres work properly, drivers were saying "no grip at all" all the way. Especially on medium tyre "it was as if running on ice", also "lack of downforce", they were saying.
At Mexico, even with the max aero setting same as Monaco that teams were running, the absolute amount of downforce is smaller than that of minimum aero setting at Monza (info in the article)
  • The condition that you cannot get downforce due to thin air is same for everyone, but RBR and STR are fast. Aero performance becomes severer for the thinness of the air, and its effect was bigger for us compared to others, I think.
  • currently, there is no "unexpected" for us (laughs)
 
Team brought many testing/experimental parts/menu for USA but at Mexico it's even busier (info in the article)
 
  • (Q: Without SC, race must have unfolded differently?) If we had not been stuck behind Sauber, we wouldve been able to be racing with Perez and Williams, so in that sense it's very disappointing. However, we are beaten by FI and Williams in race pace. We were not competitive enough to score points securely, and there was bad luck on strategy too. But, considering tyre life, we had no other option after all.
 
 
 
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Brazil
 
 
Friday
http://f1sokuho.mopita.com/pc/free/inde ... t=-1&at=15
2016年11月12日
 

(Alonso's stoppage during FP2 at 1455 local time)
  • Water pressure drop in ERS coolant has been detected, so had him stop
Alonso's Friday PU: 
- unit previously used at Malaysia quali/race and Mexico (= spec 3.0, the version that has been introduced at Spa)
- supposed to exchange to the unit used in Japan and USA after FP1/2 (= spec 3.5 that has been introduced at Malaysia FP and used at least for quali/race at Japan)
 
Up until spec 3.0, the PU had inherent water leak issue (suffered in winter testing in Feb/March, at Spa, etc)
Addressed the issue for spec 3.5
 

JB's issue in FP2
  • heat coating of exhaust pipe came off partly, so detected temp increase in the exhaust area, but at the same time gearbox temp has increased too, so team decided to return the car to garage and halt the running, to be on safe side, it seems.
 
 
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Saturday
http://f1sokuho.mopita.com/pc/free/inde ... 4262&tt=-1
2016年11月13日
  • (ALO PU, just before FP3 started) Sensor in gearbox was malfunctioning, so we had to take out gearbox from chassis in a hurry.
  • At the end of FP3, the power of JB's PU has shut down briefly, so system has stopped, and engine has stopped temporarily too. It has recovered quickly, so we had him pit, but there was no particular problem. We couldve send him onto the track again, but not much time left in the session so decided to conclude the session.
 
 
-----------------------------------
Sunday
http://f1sokuho.mopita.com/pc/free/inde ... 4330&tt=-1
2016年11月14日
 
On exhaust pipe coating issue that happened to JB in FP2: 
- after the quali, they found out crack in exhaust pipe. That was for Friday PU, so race PU's exhaust was fine, but Honda, after acquiring permission from FIA, decided to exchange the exhaust pipe for both cars to be secure. (info in the article)
[note that exhaust pipe is common component for both spec 3.0 and 3.5]

Regarding JB PU's power shut down issue in FP3, they decided to swap ES and CE (for JB's PU)
  • Jenson had to race while being plagued by symptom of "no grip and strange balance" that's continuing since Sat. He's not a driver who would go slower than FA by that big margin, so at the briefing we concluded "we must investigate the car and identify the cause by the next race".
  • At the first pitstop it was still ok to have gambled for JB, but regarding boxing Alonso, team admitted at post race briefing that it was a mistake. Perhaps Mag was going faster after switching to intermediate, so we reacted to it. However, it was not just us who switched to intermediate, some other cars like williams changed as well, so I don't think it was reckless strategy. But in hindsight pitstop for tyre switch didn't result in positive outcome thanks partly to the subsequent red flag.
  • We never know what wouldve happened had Fernando not spun, but there is no limit if we started talking about "what if". Rather, I'd like to be pleased with the fact that 2 drivers pushed hard and finished the race under such difficult condition, and one of the cars could score point.
 
 
・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・
summary
http://www.as-web.jp/f1/67773?all
2016年11月21日
https://sportiva.shueisha.co.jp/clm/mot ... it___f1_1/
2016.11.17
 
(on speed trap figure of 10km/h slower than those on top of the chart)
  • it's understeer so cannot press on throttle at the entry of main straight, and it's about power battle on the uphill there so that speed doesn't come, both of them I think. It's been like this for a while now, ie grip level is low, understeer at corner entry and oversteer at corner exit, it's always been the same comment.
Alonso's issue during FP2: 
- water leak from MGU-H
- spec 3.0 (spa spec, used at Malaysia and Mexico)

JB's issue during FP2:
- heat protection coating on exhaust pipe peeled off, heating up gearbox

JB's issue during FP3:
- Main power has shut down momentarily, recovered by resetting the system, and able to come back to pit by itself at least
- The cause could not be identified, so decided to change ES and EC

FA's issue before FP3
- gearbox sensor malfunction, removed gearbox from chassis and exchanged sensor
  • (on ALO water leak FP2) This is the third water leak of the season. First one during winter testing, 2nd happened at Belgium GP, then this time. Actually we have encountered water leak issues quite often, so we have been applying fixes/patches every time it happened. This Friday engine was spec 3.0, but from Saturday onward the component with solution applied will be installed (=spec 3.5), so it should be fine.  
(on gap/contrast between ALO car and JB car)
  • Of course we analyze data to aim high towards Saturday, so in that sense it's not like Fernando went well by luck accidentally, in fact JB' didnt go well, so....
  • It' not a fortune telling, so that's not good (laughs)
  • Weak in mid-high speed corners, not good at low grip condition, at least that's clear, but the problem is that car's final setting part is at a mess, or difficult to make it stable, and we cannot foresee properly whether a change makes things good or bad, that's what it is.
  • why performance fluctuates quite a bit depending on track characteristics and condition is because relying heavily on strengths in small area, and it indicates lack of overall performance. Merc and RBR are fast no matter what/where, and unaffected by fickle weather of Sao Pauro.
  • In short, aero, mechanical grip, and power, all of them. We have to raise all area as a comprehensive performance, otherwise you cannot show competitiveness stably.
Before Brazil GP, senior engineers from Honda incl Hasegawa visited MTC to hold discussion on package of next year's machine.
At Sakura, many iterations of PU are running on dyno already


 
 

 
=============================
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Abu Dhabi
 
 

Friday
http://f1sokuho.mopita.com/pc/free/inde ... 4674&tt=-1
2016年11月26日
 

on JB's "retire announcement"
  • Team does not take JB's remark as retirement announcement. I think his remark of "I regard this race as the last" is his true feeling. But he has contract with the team for next year too, also of course it is Jenson who would drive in case of whatever emergency happening to regular drivers. So I dont think like we will never see him appearing in garage anymore or race together again. Even MS came back, so.
  • So you cannot tell whether this will definitely be his final race or not, but of course everyone in the team is thinking "this may well be the final race", and as Honda, we would like to support him with the mindset of "this is the last race for Jenson".
  • I wouldnt say victory, but I want him to score points and have the race he can be satisfied with to have graceful finale. At the same time, I also have a bit of sentiment that I want him to leave regret and come back again....
(JB's water leak in FP1)
  • water pressure of cooling has dropped a bit, so ordered him to pit by radio. But, we were unable to identify the cause of water leak. It may well be that air came out due to high ambient temp, but continuing to use it was a concern, it would be big trouble if it stopped immediately in FP2, so we decided to remove the Friday engine to exchange to race engine for FP2. 
similar trouble happened to FA's PU at Brazil, that was same Friday PU of spec 3.0.

 

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Saturday
http://f1sokuho.mopita.com/pc/free/inde ... t=-1&at=30
2016年11月27日
  • From the initial attack in Q1, I was able to watch the session in a relaxed mood. In Q2 JB lost a bit of time at hairpin but gap to FA was 0.2sec and it was a spirited attack.
  • Yet I was made to realize once again that going through to Q3 with both cars is difficult.
 
 
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Sunday
http://f1sokuho.mopita.com/pc/free/inde ... t=-1&at=15
2016年11月28日
http://f1sokuho.mopita.com/pc/free/inde ... t=-1&at=15
2016年12月5日
  • On the long run pace, we couldn't keep up with FI's pace, but were able to fight with Williams on equal term.
After the race JB came to garage to thank staff, and Hasegawa told JB "it was lovely working with you, come back anytime"
  • For the final few laps, Massa caught up to Perez so that he was able to use DRS too, so it wasn't just Alonso who had the benefit of DRS, therefore couldn't overtake Massa and had to settle with 10th.
  • We couldnt pass Williams, but I think it was positive that we could show our current performance properly.
  • I'd like to thank every single member of McLaren-Honda who worked so hard throughout the long 2016 season. It's not just staff at circuit venue but also all the staff at Woking, MK and Sakura. I'm proud of what we've achieved together. Battle of 2016 has finished today, but from tomorrow we'd like to push the development towards 2017 at max.
 
 
・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・
 
 
 
・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・
 
btw on reliability, JB's final PU lasted Japan, US, Mex, Brazil and Abu Dhabi, so 5 races, and 6 PU in total for 21 races with 1st unit breaking down at its 2nd race in Bahrain due to MGU-K bearing failure, so reliability was quite good for JB at least.
FA suffered many breakages unfortunately but each of the surviving units actually covered good distance so not too bad.
so overall reliability wasnt too bad esp considering last year.
[/quote]

Hopefully it's not against the rule.

Roostfactor
Roostfactor
11
Joined: 26 Aug 2016, 04:50
Location: Texas

Re: Honda Power Unit

Post

Very good info indeed. Thank you Joseki!