British GP 2011 - Silverstone

[Gerhard Berger]

I can find 3 Webber-Vettel incidents in 2010:

1 - Turkey

2 - Britain - Vettel battled with Webber at the start, that caused him to go off track and led to a puncture as he struggled to hold of Hamilton.

3 - Hungary - Vettel took a penalty for not maintaining a consistent gap behind the safety car in order to gain advantage over Webber who was behind him.

Vettel crashed in Belgium against Button. OK, not an team crash, but a warning that desperate overtaking looses points.

Finally, Canada 2011 was a lesson that even pressurising a driver in variable track conditions can cause a driver to go off track. That supports the "maintain gap" decision.

1. PNSD already said. So that's one.

2. There was no crash between them, and it seemed like Hamilton's front wing end fence caused the puncture rather than him running wide (which by the way was completely Vettel's fault and nothing to do with Webber).

3. Again no crash between them. Vettel f*&ked up (as admitted on the radio), and Webber was actually ahead of him.

So basically you're saying if Vettel tries to overtake anyone he crashes, and if anyone pressures him from behind he crashes? Therefore Webber should just avoid going near Vettel?

[Richard]

I guess it comes down to whether you think it right for a team to bank the points they've got, or allow your drivers to crash on a point of principle.

Personally, I think Horner had good reason to say that's enough, bring the cars home safely. I also think it was the professional thing to do given his obligation to win the WDC and WCC.

[Gerhard Berger]

I guess it comes down to whether you think it right for a team to bank the points they've got, or allow your drivers to crash on a point of principle.

Personally, I think Horner had good reason to say that's enough, bring the cars home safely. I also think it was the professional thing to do given his obligation to win the WDC and WCC.

It's not about allowing the drivers to crash, it's about allowing the drivers to race.

He will win the WDC and WCC easily - this is one of the most dominant seasons in history for both Vettel and Red Bull. Horner clearly doesn't trust his drivers which is very sad IMO.

[Richard]

He has good reason not to trust, once bitten (or 2 or 3) etc...

Horner is just being as professional as possible, why leave something to chance?

[Gerhard Berger]

He has good reason not to trust, once bitten (or 2 or 3) etc...

So i guess they should never race eachother then? and the same should apply to Ferrari, Mclaren, Mercedes etc. because all their drivers have come together with eachother in the past.

Horner is just being as professional as possible, why leave something to chance?

Someone who is professional tends to stick to his word.

[Richard]

Come on, that's way out of context.

I'm merely advocating the pragmatic approach of switching to protecting your points towards the end of the race. Its about being strategic and not letting the red mist ruin a good points haul.

I guess you'd say Hamilton's strategy in Monza 2009 (crashed a couple of laps before the end when trying to catch the leader) was perfect? I'd say he was cavalier, a heroic failure, he should have banked the points.

I also used the term "professional" in terms of nailing the WDC and WCC as soon as possible, that's Horner's job first and foremost.

[CHT]

I think it make perfect sense for RBR to want to seal both titles asap so that they can stop developing 2011 cars completely and shift their focus to 2012.

[raymondu999]

I think it make perfect sense for RBR to want to seal both titles asap so that they can stop developing 2011 cars completely and shift their focus to 2012.

From a very logical, performance-based standpoint, I completely concur.

[andartop]

I think it make perfect sense for RBR to want to seal both titles asap so that they can stop developing 2011 cars completely and shift their focus to 2012.

I hope they won't because eventually the FIA will ban in season development of next years' cars!

[Gerhard Berger]

Come on, that's way out of context.

I'm merely advocating the pragmatic approach of switching to protecting your points towards the end of the race. Its about being strategic and not letting the red mist ruin a good points haul.

I guess you'd say Hamilton's strategy in Monza 2009 (crashed a couple of laps before the end when trying to catch the leader) was perfect? I'd say he was cavalier, a heroic failure, he should have banked the points.

I also used the term "professional" in terms of nailing the WDC and WCC as soon as possible, that's Horner's job first and foremost.

What difference does it make if it's at the end of the race?

Hamilton's case is a completely different scenerio.

Red Bull are going to win the WCC and WDC. The team order means Vettel will probably win the championship earlier, though what difference does it make if he wins the championship in Monza or Singapore?

[Mandrake]

I think it make perfect sense for RBR to want to seal both titles asap so that they can stop developing 2011 cars completely and shift their focus to 2012.

I hope they won't because eventually the FIA will ban in season development of next years' cars!

Do you have a source for that? Cause that'd be the stupidiest thing they could do. Whoever builds the best car in the break, runs away with the title...

[Richard]

I think it make perfect sense for RBR to want to seal both titles asap so that they can stop developing 2011 cars completely and shift their focus to 2012.

From a very logical, performance-based standpoint, I completely concur.

Agreed

[Mandrake]

Red Bull are going to win the WCC and WDC. The team order means Vettel will probably win the championship earlier, though what difference does it make if he wins the championship in Monza or Singapore?

The earlier you do it, the more impressive it is and it show how superior the combination of car and driver is.

This is even better publicity than winning with just 1 point in questionable circumstances. Just remember all the discussion and what ifs with Hamilton/Massa in 2008.....This year there will hopefully only be complaints about how much better the RedBull in Vettel's hands was.......no what ifs and had he done that etc. pp.

[Gerhard Berger]

Red Bull are going to win the WCC and WDC. The team order means Vettel will probably win the championship earlier, though what difference does it make if he wins the championship in Monza or Singapore?

The earlier you do it, the more impressive it is and it show how superior the combination of car and driver is.

This is even better publicity than winning with just 1 point in questionable circumstances. Just remember all the discussion and what ifs with Hamilton/Massa in 2008.....This year there will hopefully only be complaints about how much better the RedBull in Vettel's hands was.......no what ifs and had he done that etc. pp.

If we are going down that road, we can say people will not rate Vettel's championship highly because he needed team orders and had no competition from his teammate...

Let's be realistic though. It is not as if people will remember Vettel as a legend if he wins it in Monza, yet if he wins it one race later in Singapore he will be remembered as an undeserving champion.

Personally, I will remember this season as Red Bull/Vettel domination - a great car with an extremely quick driver. He doesn't need team orders to show that or further proof that.

[i70q7m7ghw]

I guess you'd say Hamilton's strategy in Monza 2009 (crashed a couple of laps before the end when trying to catch the leader) was perfect? I'd say he was cavalier, a heroic failure, he should have banked the points.

Bag the points to what purpose? He wasn't in title contention, so he had nothing to lose.